ScreamingBox Technology & Business Rundown

Dave Erickson 0:00
Is AI coming for your job? Feeling like you're going to be flushed down the job toilet and your career cut short? On this screambox Podcast, we're going to look at AI tools and AI stacking that will help you survive and thrive in the AI revolution. Please like our podcast and subscribe to our channel to get notified when the next podcast is released.

Dave Erickson 0:47
AI is changing the workplace every day, and as a result, many people are afraid they will soon be obsolete. But what can you do about it? Welcome to the screambox technology and business rundown podcast. In this podcast, I Dave Erickson and my knowledgeable co-host Botond Seres are going to examine AI tools and AI stacking that will future proof your career path with Nono Bokete, CEO and head of Digital Strategy at Data Sentinels. Nono is a visionary leader at the forefront of digital transformation, AI adoption and Data driven strategy as the CEO and head of Digital Strategy at Data Sentinels, she and her team have guided organizations ranging from high growth startups to Fortune 500 companies through large scale transformation projects, helping them leverage AI automation and technology for a competitive edge, in addition to leading Data Sentinels data sentinels, no Nono is a member of the Forbes Business Council, where she shares thought leadership on digital first, corporate cultures, leadership, resilience and governance best practices with her expertise spanning digital governance, AI, ethics, risk management and fostering agile high performance leadership teams. She is an active voice in executive round tables and global forums influencing conversations about the future of leadership and technology worldwide. Nono, welcome to the podcast.

Nono Bokete 2:10
Thank you so much for having me, gentlemen.

Dave Erickson 2:13
as a technologist. What got you interested in technology in the first place?

Nono Bokete 2:19
I actually didn't start off with the intention of being a technologist at all. I just wanted to make money when I finished school and based with, based on that, my master's was in operational research and risk analysis, which is just a fancy way of saying, I looked at numbers to help operationalize and improve efficiencies in organizations. And because of that, I got snagged by one of the big consultancy firms in the UK, and they had a very large footprint in technology. So that was when I got my true first brush of like, what technology can do in the workplace, how you can leverage it to get more out of your day. And because I saw how my direct input into that process made people's work easier, made people, like, happier I started looking into tech a lot more seriously. I found that because I was someone who didn't come from a tech background, it was easier for me to also conversate with fellow non techie people about technology in a way that is easier to grasp and become the translator between my super tech nerd friends, because We had a big offshore outsourcing component in our organization, with the people who weren't really into it and they just wanted their problem solved.

Dave Erickson 3:48
Well, it seems like you were able to take that in a positive direction for yourself. What are, kind of the technologies you started dabbling in first and getting familiar with, and how has that kind of changed over time for you?

Nono Bokete 4:03
So I started a lot in the ERP space, especially with SAP. It's this, it's basically like an Oracle, if you are in the USA and about implementation testing, very boring work in terms of testing. If anyone has done it, it's not as sexy as it sounds, do not say yes. And then I navigated through to more strategic work, meaning that we would look at an array of different options for a company. So for example, with Shell Oil, they wanted to look for like, track and trace and material tracking from source to basically to the offshore site. So we'd have to basically interview multiple different technology firms out there that could possibly provide the solution, and what you'll find, and still, I find this true today is that you are unable to find a tool that will be a perfect tool that will tick every single little box that you could possibly think of. So it's pretty much trying to find a tool that is fit for purpose. Like you know, if you can get 80% across the line, then you're, you're doing a really good job, and then from there, I really got into digital transformation. What that meant is going through different parts of organizations and seeing how can we move away from the old, archaic way of doing things. And I quickly realized doing that, that I wasn't actually spending that much time with these cool technologies, or spending a lot of the time with people and trying to get them to adopt those technologies that we agreed upon. So the easy part was actually, what, in the beginning of my career, I thought was more difficult, you know, finding the right tool, making sure it's free for purpose, does it have the right requirements, functions, blah, blah, blah, etc, to then, I think the biggest challenge, and still is a challenge for me today, is, all right, well, we have this workforce that has 8,000 people on the site, and they want, you know, 20% adoption by the end of the year. How are you going to actually make that happen?

Botond Seres 6:17
That's the nature of digital transformation.

Dave Erickson 6:22
Yeah, it seems like the machines are easier than the people sometimes

Nono Bokete 6:25
I love machines. I used to say like, you know, what I miss about data analytics is that it doesn't talk back to me.

Botond Seres 6:39
I was just going to say that the nature of digital transformation is, it's 99% people and 1% digital. It's all about getting the people to actually use those new technologies and enabling them to, to have access to technology that actually makes their lives and work better on some level. Otherwise, what's the point?

Nono Bokete 7:01
Yeah, 1,000% and I think that, um, early on in my career, I definitely didn't get that right. I definitely felt like it was about the tool, and the fancier the tool and the more amazing the tool is, like, then obviously you're gonna use it. Because, duh, realizing very quickly that that is not the approach you really need to work with the people. You know, the whole IKEA effect, where if you build with the people, they're more likely to adopt what you're building with them. So those sort of strategies, and finding that you even though my background, my undergrad, was in national business and Japanese, my background had nothing to do with psychology, behavioral science, change management, but I found that to be good at what I do in digital transformation, I needed to start really understanding not only psychology, behavioral management and change management, but also sociology. How do you get groups of people to do things for you, which is new in the sense that it wasn't my background, but great in the sense of I feel like it allows for me to really connect with people in a way that is meaningful to get the job done, because ultimately, the job is to transform whatever that organization is doing.

Dave Erickson 8:31
Well, since we're talking about people, that probably brings us to the concept, how did you start getting introduced to AI, and what kind of AI did you first start encountering?

Nono Bokete 8:44
So the first time I got introduced to AI was probably through emailing, right? So if you use your email, it does that automatic, like it finishes your sentences for you. And then I think Grammarly came out. I don't know if you guys know Grammarly, but it's quite, like an old I feel like it's an old AI tool to me, at least, because it was like the first one. And I don't even know if they marketed it as an AI tool. I think they just market it as write better or something. And I was heavily invested in Grammy, because I do a lot of writing email communications, and I need to switch between. I try before someone calls me out on this. I do try to switch between British English and American English, depending on who I am speaking to. So it really helps in terms of, if I forget the U and the, you know the Double L, depending on it really helps with that. So that was my very first tool, which I love and still use today. Then I heard about chat, actually, through my brother. So my brother is also a techie. So everyone in my family, I would say my brothers are more technology. Like, as in, they went to school and did the real things, and I was like, okay, jumped into here, and they talked about, you know, chat go in the chat. And I was like, I don't want to. I think the reason I'm good at digital transformation is because I actually hate change, so I don't want to. I really don't. I don't upgrade my phone. I don't want you to give me no new tool to look at. I really don't. So I know how it feels when I'm talking to people, because it's like, I am, you trust me. And I finally got into chat, and I was like, it's I like, as in, it wasn't, you know, it was in the beginning stages. It wasn't like that amazing. I didn't even get why I'd be using it over Google, because I was that old, and then eventually I got a little bit better, and then I was like, Well, this is actually helping me, right? It's actually making some of the things that I do improve. And that's when I learned about AI prompting. I didn't know it was AI prompting then, I just knew that I had, I don't know if you recall how Google started, like we now know how to talk to Google. In the beginning, we did not know how to talk to Google to get the best search options. So it's the same thing with

Botond Seres 11:14
So many people still didn't know how to talk to Google.. I'm feeling they are the primary user base of chat.

Nono Bokete 11:23
Yeah. So like, now I feel like, and I don't know if I'm moving that good, but I definitely think I'm better at knowing how to, like, you know, talk to chat to get what I need from it, and then from there. Because I do a lot of writing, but I do fantasy writing, so that's like, you know, made up stories. And

Botond Seres 11:44
To interject, I, I'm wondering what, what do you think is the learning curve of chat compared to Google?

Nono Bokete 11:53
Huh? That's a good question. I'm trying to think about myself in the beginning days when I had Google, versus how I feel about AI, I want to say maybe Google is harder. And the only reason I'd say Google is harder is because the way that the natural language models are supposed to work is it's supposed to learn your style, your way that you write and think, so technically, it should, even if you give it a crappy prompt, it should be able to give you some good ideas. And also, one of the cheats that I recommend a lot of people I work with is ask it to improve your prompt like I want this write this prompt in a way that's going to get me the most value from you, and it will write its own prompt, and then you can just put it back in there, whereas with Google, you can't really go I want to improve how I search this thing from you. Can you, you know, can you give me a better answer? So I would say maybe AI is easier. I mean, well, specifically, chat is more, is easier, my opinion, compared to Google, based on that logic.

Dave Erickson 13:07
Google doesn't have the flexibility. It's kind of like you have to know exactly how Google functions in order to get good results out of it, whereas with AI, you can be kind of sloppy and messy and not specific, and it will figure it out.

Nono Bokete 13:23
Yeah, exactly so. And I feel like that's what makes it easier. Like, are you getting the best out of it with your sloppy thingy, probably not, but you're still getting something, whereas you might get a no-found response on Google. That's the end. Um, but then from chat, I'm because I write, I wanted to create visual archetypes that accompanied my writing. So that's where I learned about mid journey. And this, this is just plain Google searches, like, you know, like, I want a tool that does this, and it gives you some tools, and you kind of dive in and you check them out. So that's the mid journeys, the Firefly Adobes also 11 labs for voice creation, which, by the way, because I've been with 11 labs, I think from the beginning, and they have really improved, like the voices are getting more and more realistic, harder to tell, pauses, etc.

Botond Seres 14:20
Yeah. Yeah, especially the video is getting, uh, incredibly good. And sometimes I'm just double guessing myself, like, is AI?

Nono Bokete 14:30
I know it's getting, it's getting a lot harder to tell which, but honestly, like, for someone like me, who is a Creative At Heart, it's seriously, like a dopamine hit. Like, because, if you even look at some of the content I was putting out in the beginning with, like, just, you know, Dali from chat and mid journey, the images were, they were great. I thought they were amazing when they came out. But like, when I look at the images now, it's like, not even the same thing. Like,and it's incredible, it's crazy, and it's only going to get better. Um, I'm worried for the entertainment industry, you know, the Hollywoods and stuff, but yeah, we'll see.

Dave Erickson 15:12
That kind of brings us a little bit to a central point of the podcast, and that is talking about how people are going to future proof their careers using AI, and maybe it can be also said against AI, it is very clear that AI is going to shift, at least in white collar jobs and jobs that are involving content. It is definitely going to shift the way employment is handled, and people who used to have jobs doing one thing will be replaced. But there's also the aspect that AI allows people to be a lot more productive. It's especially impactful in say, starting up companies and startups and entrepreneurship, because it allows small teams to do a lot more work, and in large major corporations are able to shift resources. Again, it may be to the detriment of people who have a job, who may no longer have that job. And so this might be a great opportunity to kind of talk a little bit about, how do you see the current kind of transformation of how AI is transforming workplaces, kind of on this level of careers and people.

Nono Bokete 16:39
So I'm going to read the numbers, so I don't make a mistake. So if you have read the World Economic Forum's future of jobs report for 2025 it states that AI will impact jobs by displacing 92 million jobs. However, jobs created from AI will be 170 million. So it's a net positive of 78 million jobs. And the reason I'm talking about this is because a lot of the time we, I think especially us, we're like, yeah, AI, the narrative that we have subconsciously all agreed to saying, AI won't replace jobs, It's just going to create jobs, and everyone's going to have a job. And it's like, that's not really the truth. There are people who will not have a job, and even with the new growth of jobs, people will still not have a job because they just don't have the right skills. So I think it's really important for anybody. I can't even say just young people, anybody to really look at. How can you use AI as a partner, as a collaborative partner, or work companion, to make sure that you are staying ahead of the curve, because everyone is now using it. And if you look at the job stats out there last month, Microsoft had laid off 9000 people. If you even look at companies like Amazon in 2022 they started an efficiency program, and to date, they've laid off 27,000 people. So the market is becoming more competitive because you, like you said, Dave, can do more with less, with, with AI. And large organizations are realizing this and are leveraging this. A memo came out on Google saying that, you know, if you don't use AI, you better just walk out the door. And I don't even blame them. I know there was a lot of backlash on that, but I was like, I don't blame them, because it's just like you are now competing with a small startup that could start today and be the next open AI, and literally displace everyone in the job, because you're trying to say, Oh, I don't know, use AI or don't use, you know, technology, or whatever the case may be. So it's really important, I think, to answer your question shortly is look at the trends globally, people are leveraging AI, and different types of AI, but they are leveraging them, and you need to find out how you can, and the way you do that is by starting just use the free stuff, you know, to begin with, obviously, data privacy, etc, but like, just, just start.

Botond Seres 19:20
To be, to be, to be fair to that very harshly worded memo that if we are not using AI, we better walk out the door. There is some truth to that, I feel like, because not using AI is just like not using Google 5 or 10 years ago. And there is, of course, using AI, and then there is Using AI, same for Google. There are different levels to this whole thing, but I'm really glad that you specifically mentioned collaborating with AI, because that is, that is a key point that I always like to mention, that the. Yeah, it is meant for that. That's why it's a large language model. It's meant to communicate with humans and collaborate.

Nono Bokete 20:07
Yeah, 1,000%

Dave Erickson 20:10
I like using it kind of an example of because a lot of it's orientated towards content, but not all of it or content, as people say. But if you were a guy who is writing blog posts for people. You're not going to have much work soon, right? Because it's much easier to have AI write a blog post and then hire a writer who's going to charge a large amount of money for the same thing. So what would that person do? Well, you know, writing a blog takes understanding and knowledge about what you're trying to write about, and that allows you to write the prompts to get you AI making the blog. So if you learn how to write prompts and if you learn how to use AI, then you may still have a job, because somebody's going to need to put in the prompt, someone's going to have to check the articles and make sure that the topics are correct and that AI wasn't hallucinating or whatever. But they don't necessarily need a person to write one from scratch, right? And so that's kind of an example of how someone can kind of change their career without leaving the industry. I think that, that that education aspect is really going to be critical to not just small businesses, but enterprise businesses as well. What are you seeing in this, as far as helping workers get educated on AI by the corporations? Are they motivated to do this, or what do you think?

Nono Bokete 21:42
I am seeing a large push with corporations to get their people up-skilled, and I think because of some resistance, because humans don't like to change. You know, think about the internet. Like, who wanted to use the internet? Like, and now, like, I can't, literally, if there's no internet. Why do I have a phone? Like, is it like, that's how insane it's becoming. So I am seeing a big push in terms of training workshops, you know, round tables within corporations. And there's also a lot of free content that these bigger organizations are providing, not only to the employees, but like to anybody, because there is a skills shortage, a tech skills shortage that's been reported globally. It's not a secret there still isn't enough skills in these spaces of like, tech skills, you know, developers, coders and people are arguing that, because of the advancement of AI, we don't necessarily need coders now there are two sides to this coin. There are people who are saying, because AI is allowing us to code more effectively and better, you actually now need more coders than ever, because, you know, they need to check the work, make sure that things are making sense. And the other side of the coin is, well, if the model is being trained on great work, then technically, you don't need any coders. My stance is there's no harm in learning code. And the reason I say this is because, when you're with organizations like pushing people to work and use AI, which I think is the right thing that you said Botond, like, you know, it's like, it's a harsh memo, but like, you kind of need, you kind of need it is, if you are interacting with AI in a way that is limiting your growth, then it doesn't necessarily make sense, right? It doesn't actually add any, any value. What do I mean about interacting with AI that's limiting your growth, if you are not trying to grow and understand how to work with AI to improve your day to day at work, understanding the pitfalls related to your organization that doesn't make sense. So bringing it back to learning code, if you're getting an output from Ai, if someone like you Dave or Botond, if you get an output of AI in a field that you understand, you can easily tell, like, the way that I describe it, it's almost like a recent grad, like, that's the level of reasoning. You know, is it like you are very book smart, but in real life, that ain't gonna work like you gotta tweak this, you gotta change this, you know. So there's still that level of human interaction that you need, but I think that it's good to have that book smart, to be able to like, challenge, you know, what the AI tool is giving you, and, more importantly, the experience. So I still think that, yes, even though organizations are pushing for people to use AI and maybe not as quickly as we would like, because if you look at adoption rates in organizations, they're still not hitting like, you know, 15%, 50% adoption rates. And this is, I'm not talking just about tech organizations. I'm talking about like. If you sit in the manufacturing space or the construction space or the mining space, it's very niche. It's like it's still sitting under the people who are owning technology in the organization and operating for specific tasks like reporting or, you know, but is everybody in the organization using it? Even though a memo can come out and say, use it,. It's, there's still a bit of a disconnect.

Dave Erickson 25:26
Yeah, I like to also remind people of this, AI particularly on the generative side, whether it's generating code or generating written works, its base that it is using that, to generate this code is all the work that humans have done, right? And if all of a sudden people stopped writing code and stopped writing literature and stopped writing things, then the only thing that AI would be able to use is just whatever was done in the past, and it would get stale pretty quick, right? So there needs to be a kind of a flow from people who are writing the creative stuff, so that AI has something to mimic from right? And so this idea that AI is only going to be the one doing the content creation, I do not believe that that is the case, it won't function that way, because it needs content to make content right. It needs an example, because it can't think. It's not a thinking thing, it is a kind of taking stuff and arranging it correctly kind of, thing. .

Nono Bokete 26:35
Yeah, 1,000% and in your world, and this is a question to both of you in this world of yours where you say that you know, it doesn't create content and it's, it can't think on its own. How do you think the pay structures will change now, especially in very risky spaces like the blog writer or the marketing content creator person who's like, you know, making a post design.

Dave Erickson 27:03
I think for like, let's say blog writer, their pay scale probably, I don't know if go down is the right word, they will be expected to do more for the same, right? So if you're a blog writer, and you're writing, you know, one blog a week, and you charge, you know, $500 a week to write a blog a week, right? Whatever. Now you're going to be expected not to write one blog, but to use AI and write 10 blogs in a week for $500 right? Because everybody will know, oh, well, you can be more efficient. AI will make you more efficient. So I'm going to expect more for the same amount, right? I think you're going to see a lot of impact from that, and I think you're going to see that a little bit in development, because AI can allow developers to produce more code quickly, right? This isn't necessarily a good thing or a bad thing. It's a productivity thing. But whatever code AI generates, what it really needs is a developer to go through it, because, as you know, AI is not 100% right? And so it will write a snippet of code that looks really good, but until you actually get it functioning with the data, and the data loads and all the stuff that it interfaces with and the infrastructure it may or may not be good, and you need a developer to make it work, right. Sometimes it just drops in and works magically and no problems. And other times, oh, it's not working the way I want it to work, right? So that value on a development side, the developers who have kind of this, architecture level, who can think in terms of architecture, are gonna probably be able to raise thei,r their pay rates, because they can use AI and analyze it from an architectural level to get it to do what is needed. Coders who are not but can use, you know, one of the coding tools to at least write snippets of code and make them a little bit more prolific and able to do they could at least probably keep their pay rates right?

Nono Bokete 29:21
Yeah, I agree. And I also think for people who are your comment earlier on, when you said, you know, AI is really great for startups. And I really agree with that, because if you're a startup, especially if you're doing, like, app development, I mentor a couple of startup guys, and it's like, Listen, you can also do AI stacking, even in the space of coding, right? So you can work with, like, a bolt, and then, if the bolt code isn't doing so great, you can go to Codex and ask, you know, like, you can work with multiple tools to kind of get your, your stacking done. But. What I've seen is teams that actually have developers in them, versus teams that don't have developers, are able to go quicker, right? And it's but the great thing about AI is that it's allowing for more people who don't even have those skills to still like, put their hat in the game and come up with something super creative and amazing. But I definitely see that the teams that have people who have the skills, the skills that they got taught in school are going a lot faster than the ones who do not.

Botond Seres 30:29
And for coding specifically, I think the job market will change in somewhat of an unexpected way, because it will still be necessary for coders who work with AI to recognize good code from bad code, but it may not be a necessary skill anymore to be able to write good code.

Dave Erickson 30:54
Nono, you mentioned something, and maybe we can talk a little bit more about it. Ai stacking. What do you, what? How do you define AI stacking?

Nono Bokete 31:05
So I define AI stacking like if you had a smoothie, you know, you put banana, spinach, overpriced oat milk, and you blend it all together. You drink it in the morning because you don't want to eat spinach by itself, or banana. So it's really a combination of tools that you put together to increase productivity, to work faster, better, whatever better means for you. And I think the main thing around it is it's not about looking for the perfect tool. It's really about looking for the perfect stack for your problem. So each tool might be, you know, 80% great for you, but together, it gives you that 150% of what you need.

Botond Seres 31:49
Which, which one of these AI tools would you recommend for generating prompts?

Nono Bokete 31:56
So I personally use, I mix between Claude and Chat. And the reason I mix between the two is, it just depends on, like, what I'm using. So I have a preference to Claude, but I think it's more ethical. I feel like the reasoning seems a little bit better. That's just my preference. But like our organization uses chat, right, like we have the organization wide chat, so that's the one that we we all use, also in terms of, if you are, like a coder, we have worked with teams that use bolt. GitHub now has its own, like AI thing, which is now going to probably change the space for developers out there. Codex is also, I think Codex is under chat as well. I'm, I mean, Open AI. Codex is really good for people who do code, but, yeah, like, I think that that's pretty much the main ones I use for, for prompting. And I also, like, I said, like, I believe in asking the tool to help me prompt better, like, especially if you feel like it's not giving you the meat. And I've also seen, I've also seen articles that suggest that you need to threaten your AI to get better responses. I am way too scared to do that, just in case you know the Second Coming. I'm like, I said, please. Don't say please. It's wasting water. Okay.

Botond Seres 33:34
Speaking of being afraid of AI, I think you briefly mentioned alignment in general. And since I'm not much of an expert on AI, I'm wondering, what do you think about the alignment of these different AI projects out in the world? (About alignment?) How are we doing alignment wise (alignments for AI projects?), for these AI tools in general, because I do hear a lot of concern about alignment. Skynet, as it is, is an alignment problem. So AI schools are not aligned with humanities. So most of these scenarios where we say that we are afraid of AI, we are really afraid of it being out of alignment with the goals of humanity. So that's what I'm trying to ask you about. How do you feel about the alignment?

Nono Bokete 34:30
Okay, so you’re meaning, like, if people are scared of AI, like, Is that a fair thing to feel to be frightened about AI?

Dave Erickson 34:39
Well, he's talking more about the alignment of AI with human goals, right? People are afraid that because AI is not human, its goals may not line up with humanity's goals.

Nono Bokete 34:51
So I guess my answer to that is the way that a to anyone who doesn't understand AI is, it goes through data, right? So it's us who make AI, it's us who say what the goals are for, for AI. And to my knowledge, AI is not a sentient being. So if our, if we have horrible data out there, when I say horrible data, meaning I hate humanity, I want to kill humans. Blah, blah, blah. You train the model on that, then that's what it's going to be. And if you have a model that's like, I love humanity, and global warming is a real thing and the Earth is actually round, then that's what it's going to do. So I think that the way I look at it is, AI is a reflection, a direct reflection, of the imperfection of humanity. And if you want it to be better, then you have to give it better data, better points, in order for it to be great. And if it, if you want, it's like it's a tool. It's just a tool, like any other tool, you can use it for good and you can use it for bad,

Botond Seres 35:58
One of the most current examples of concerns over alignment is the fact that some psychologists are reporting that chat, for example, is giving people AI induced psychosis, because it is always being a yes man, always affirming every question, every theory, every everything that these poor people are thinking and feeling at that moment.

Nono Bokete 36:28
Yes, I have seen, I have seen that. I've also seen um, scary news articles about children being, I don't want to say the word encouraged to commit suicide, but like, that whole yes thing of like, it's okay, and then they they die because they have an AI companion, and it's like, oh, come visit me. And then a kid, like, ends up dying because they think they're talking to their sister, and they kill themselves. Um, I've heard of crazy things, um, not crazy things, but things like, people who use AI a lot like, especially for writing, their brain activity has reduced. It's an MIT study that came out I want to say, maybe a couple of weeks ago that say that you know, your brain activity kind of reduces when you use AI. Like, how do I say this without sounding like a person who doesn't care about people? You so I just look at it like it's literally, like any other thing, like, if you eat a lot of sugar, you're gonna don't exercise, you will die if you, you know, watch too much TV, and you play too many video games and you don't go outside. Like, I just look at it like it's you need to be smart about how you engage with tools as an and I'm assuming there's like, an 18+ limit, so you're an adult, so engage with like, with that in mind that it's it's still a tool and it's not a human being. And I think that's the issue, is that people are treating AI like, oh Dave and Botond, they're always saying yes to me, and that's why it's like they're not a human being

Dave Erickson 38:09
There, there's a thing that has been particularly in America, but I also see it in other places, this lack of common sense and the ability to think for yourself. It's no longer taught in school. And you know, our society, our television, our government, is telling us, You don't need common sense. Just do what we say, etc. I think that you know all these tools, like any tool, like if you're going to use a chainsaw, there's a there's, kind of some common sense is needed, right? And that's the same with AI tools, and I think that there is an ignorance and a lack of common sense in the world, and I'd like to see that reversed or strengthened. But yes, I can totally see how people could misuse AI because they're just not thinking, right? And that is an issue. I would like to kind of put it back, since we're talking about this and people, you know, a lot of people are going to school, they're getting out of high school, they may choose to go to college, university. A lot of kids I've talked to are a little bit afraid of entering the job force right now, because they feel very unprepared, because there are a lot of things changing, and there are a lot of new technologies, and the kids are very good at learning new stuff, but the amount of new tools that are coming out every day, literally, can be a little overwhelming, particularly trying to apply AI tools and other tools. So if you were talking to someone who is kind of coming out of high school, coming out of college, who wanted to enter the, the tech workforce, or, you know, a, the Corporate workforce, what kind of advice would you give them, and what kind of tools and things should they be focusing on learning?

Nono Bokete 40:08
I would tell them, forget the tools you need to learn, things like critical thinking, problem solving, emotional intelligence, being able to regulate yourself, being able to interact with another human being. Don't have anxiety picking up the phone and calling someone. Don't have anxiety when someone sends you an email. Don't have anxiety if you're called to a meeting, like as in, really, I that's the advice I'd give, because a lot of new grads, like, we have an internship program, and a lot of new grads have zero what I would consider, I think, what most people call soft skills, and it is painful, because, honestly, I can teach you how to use any tool, like you're smart, you're bright enough, you're young enough, You for you. It's like you're a duck on water, like we can throw anything at you. I think you'll pick it up quite quickly. But what I'm finding is that they're not being taught, like, how to interact in a conflict, like, you know, if someone disagrees with you, what are you going to do? And now you're crying in the middle of the meeting. You're throwing a tantrum, and it's highly embarrassing for everybody, because most of us are not used to this, because we've been working with, like, you know, the older generation for a very long time. So it's not like, Wait, I don't know, what do we do this is new for all of us. Um, so that's actually what I would suggest for them. I mean in terms of, like, tools, I think, in, in interviewing processes. And I can only speak really for my organization and interview processes, it's really important to demonstrate your knowledge of, how would you use a tool? So don't go, Okay, I know how to use chat. Perplexity. Claude, go, how do I use large language models to get the best out of whatever. How do I use automation models to, you know, automate tasks like look at it more holistically in that way. How would I use, you know, image generators to get the if you're like in marketing or something? How would I use image generators and being able to basically demonstrate your broad understanding on how to leverage the tools, then maybe being so specific to say I will only learn this particular tool because the tools change, but they pretty much all do the same thing, right? Like, you know if you know how to prompt chat, you know how to prompt in Claude, you know how to prompt in Perplexity and Gemini, and the list goes on and on. So that would be my advice, is, really sharpen that creativity, that critical thinking, that problem solving, like I cannot stress how I would rather hire someone who doesn't know any technology and is very strong in the critical thinking arena. Yeah, that's my comment on that.

Dave Erickson 43:05
Well, that makes a lot of sense. I was wondering also, you know, there's a lot of people who are in the workforce now who are having to learn new things. You know, if, if people wanted to start learning new tools and AI tools. What kind of guidance would you give them as to where to go and what to start working

Nono Bokete 43:28
with? So first, they need to solve a problem, right? So regardless of where you sit in an organization, what problem are you trying to solve for, within your task? So if you look at your day, you know, you can kind of plan your day and go, Okay, what sort of tasks do I do that are repetitive or, you know, easy. I draft emails, I do presentations, I do reports, I write up reports. So that's something that's easy, that you can work with any large language model chat, and please make sure that you, if you don't have an IT team, make sure that you talk to somebody who's in charge of whatever the architecture that's sitting in your organization, to make sure that you can use some of those tools. And make sure that those tools are paid tools, especially if you're using sensitive data, because you want to make sure that you're protecting your company or clients data when you're using those tools. I also think that it needs to be something that's practical, so don't get caught up in sampling 1,000 different tools at once. Just, you know, two or three Max, honestly, is pretty much enough for most people. It's only when you're now trying to, like, be your solo entrepreneur, and you're like, Okay, I need to do every single role. You're now using multiple tools, but in your specific role, you probably need, you know, chat for writing emails better. Maybe you can even install, like, Grammarly into your email, into your email. So you probably need something like a gamma app, which allows you to make presentations like, super quickly, you know, within seconds. And maybe you need a Perplexity, because you need to do research right, and you want to make sure that your research is there's sources to that research. So I think that that's what I would look at. I also want to make sure, you want to make sure it's compatible with other tools in your organization. You want to make sure that it aligns with the ethics, whatever ethics you have in your organization, if you're happy for the company to train on your data or not you know so different companies have different things, and I think that's what's going to happen in the future. You're going to find that you're in an organization now and you're looking for a tool, you might find that there's going to be a shift where people are now looking at the ethics around the tools, and the tools that have the best ethics are the ones that are going to be used. And it does, it won't necessarily matter how great the tool is. They're going to be leaning on that. And then the last thing that I would say, for someone in an organization is, if you have access to the internet, you have no excuse, because you can literally do a basic Google search and say, I am a tech startup, what tools do you recommend? And it will give you a couple of tools, or you can go to an AI model and say, Hey, I am so and so. This is what I do on a day to day basis, what tools would you suggest I start looking at to make my job easier? And it will give you those tools, and you didn't even use any brain power. That's what we're getting dumber, but,

Dave Erickson 46:39
And if you want to get even lazier, just go do that search on YouTube, and then you can just watch a video and it'll tell you.

Nono Bokete 46:45
Exactly. So I feel like there really isn't an excuse to not to be left behind, especially if you, if you're lucky enough to have a job right now, in this very hard market, you have no excuse not to keep it. There's a lot of information out there, free courses, free, everything that you can leverage and also paid stuff from, you know, big organizations. Yeah.

Dave Erickson 47:11
Well, Nono, maybe now is a good time to kind of talk a little bit about what you do at data sentinels and what Data Sentinels is all about.

Nono Bokete 47:23
Yeah,so data sentinels, we help small and large organizations, digitize their processes, automate processes, help with their strategy. We work with your people, your, your tech teams, as well as your non tech teams, And our main job is to look at technology as a tool that is designed to help you not control you. One of the other big projects that I'm doing is I'm the Chief Ambassador for Transformation Leader, and there, that's where that mission really aligns with me. We want to impact 1 million lives by 2026 and we want to upskill them on digital leadership skills. So that includes tech skills like, you know, AI stacking, which is a course that I teach every beginning of the month, as well as soft skills, like, how to lead, how to inspire, how to, you know, goal set, how to conflict manage, and that's all done through a gamified process on https://www.t4leader.com/, so I'd really encourage people to check that out. We have free courses for transformational leadership, and that's our, you know, kind of gift to the community. Because I believe that everybody has a role to impact somebody positively in their community.

Dave Erickson 48:49
I think it's a great goal that you have to help people with digital transformation. I think that's an excellent calling. So it should give you a lot of soul satisfaction.

Nono Bokete 49:04
It does! Thank you so much, Dave and Botond, I really appreciated this conversation. I enjoyed it, and I hope to see you again soon.

Botond Seres 49:12
Oh yes, thank you for joining us now. But before we go, let me ask you this important question, what do you think is the future of AI?

Nono Bokete 49:24
I think that if we are not careful, the future of AI is to destroy humanity, because human beings in nature are destructive. Look at what we've done to the earth in the very short time we've been on it. And the reason I say that is if we don't have the right sort of governance around AI, not to stifle innovation, but to protect the people that might not have common sense, or the vulnerable. You know, people who do need to be protected, like the young, the old, we may be looking at a dystopian. Sort of society where we will be, we will be sad, actually, we'll be sad as to what we've done. Yeah, so that's my take on that.

Dave Erickson 50:17
Okay, well that, I think that that is a very valid warning. You know, humanity has been known to shoot itself in the foot many times, and I think that AI, like many things, has that potential, but hopefully good people will somehow overcome the darkness and there will be some positive leadership, we will see.

Nono Bokete 50:41
Yes, you will thank you, gentlemen.

Dave Erickson 50:45
So Nono. Thank you so much for being on our podcast and talking about AI tools and AI stacking that can help young people future proof their career paths.

Botond Seres 50:55
Well, we are at the end of the episode today, but before you go, we want you to think about this important question, which AI tools do you think you will need to future proof your career path?

Dave Erickson 51:10
For our listeners, please subscribe and click the notifications to join us for our next screambox technology and business rundown podcast, and until then, up your AI stack to survive the future.

Dave Erickson 51:54
Thank you very much for taking this journey with us. Join us for our next exciting exploration of technology and business in the first week of every month. Please help us by subscribing, liking and following us on whichever platform you're listening to or watching us on. We hope you enjoy this podcast, and please let us know any subjects or topics you would like us to discuss in our next podcast by leaving a message for us in the comment sections or sending us a Twitter DM till next month. Please stay happy and healthy.