ScreamingBox Technology & Business Rundown

SCREAMINGBOX TECHNOLOGY AND BUSINESS PODCAST - EPISODE #7 - Facebook Controversy, Internet Addiction and Tesla.

Dave Erickson 0:31
Welcome to the ScreamingBox Technology and Business Rundown podcast. Today we're going to be discussing the Facebook controversy, internet addiction, and Tesla. So I have with me, Botond. Between the two of us we're just going to have a good conversation today about those things. So let us start off with Facebook. Facebook's been in the news a lot, for many different reasons, mostly because they had a whistleblower testify to the US Congress about how Facebook is destroying society. Some of the things that they were talking about is that Facebook is based on a kind of an algorithm that promotes hate, division and disinformation. So maybe we can kind of talk a little bit about that. The part that is most controversial in this is it. Facebook has an algorithm and this algorithm, although it is Facebook's, the concept of it is used a lot within people building communities and making digital products and apps that are based on a community and that concept is the posts or the content that people post on these platforms. The most popular content, the ones that get the most reactions, the most comments are the ones that are promoted by the platform to make it so that as many people as possible see that their popularity just keeps gaining and gaining on the algorithm helps promote them because they keep getting more comments and reactions. The problem is that the content that generates those things tend to be very divisive or argumentative. Content Botond, what do you think about this, this algorithm concept? And is it really something that's gonna destroy society?

Botond Seres 2:42
Well, Dave, I would say that society will always be destroyed by society. It's how it's always been since the dawn of time. I mean, the whole purpose of the human race, you could say is to, well, I don't I don't I go too dark here, but by definition race, pretty divisive and pretty argumentative. So, in a way, this algorithm, all it does, is mimic basic human behavior. The only thing I can see an issue with this doesn't really mimic the ideal behavior that we dream of. I mean, I don't know about you, but I'm a huge fan of old school Star Trek where people honestly believe that in the future, we can put away all of our differences and work together towards greater goals, and just abandon the concept of money, for example, entirely. And that's not really a great way to promote yourself on a platform like this. We have seen it many times over there are so many people on these platforms, not only Facebook, but also on YouTube, Twitter, wherever. So many creators or influencers start out saying that capitalism is evil, and communism is the best. They'll raise a talent worry because it's not real communism. It goes, but then ends. Once they get a taste of that nice sponsorship money, and that internet fame, they suddenly don't think that money is as bad as it used to be when they were poor. So I guess it's not really the algorithm's fault. It's more of a choice by each and every one of us that we make every single day along the lines of the content we consume. Not only the content we consume, but also the content we create. I would actually think that there has been a significant reduction to misinformation or hate speech compared to what it used to be. I mean, I grew up just on the edge of when the Internet became reality. I still remember the time when it was perfectly normal to be the most hateful, bitter, racist, sexist, whatever person, that was the norm, that used to be the norm before all of these social platforms came about. So even the way I see that obviously, this is not what we want, we do not want to promote hate speech, misinformation, or whatever. I am also in a unique position, but I think you would be in an even more unique position. Since you've lived longer than the internalisation I have. I mean, we both can still remember what it used to be like, and now it's, it's not okay to be like that anymore.

Dave Erickson 6:07
It's also the audience. I use Facebook. For me, Facebook is more about finding articles that are informative, or are something that I'm interested in, like I really liked Star Trek. And so I actually belong to a Star Trek Facebook group of the original series. So they sometimes write articles or say things that are interesting from that perspective, and I'll put it on my Facebook newsfeed. So later, when I have a break, I can read the full article and, I put stuff up mostly articles that are about personal stuff, I don't really comment a lot on stuff. So everyone uses Facebook differently. I can tell you, definitely during the last presidential election, I saw some really divisive posts and a lot of false information from every side. As to whether Facebook has cleaned that up, there's a debate. One of the things that has come out is Facebook is focusing on cleaning up false information, mostly on the English language. But a lot of the Spanish side of Facebook, which is, most of Facebook's users are outside of the United States, but along the English speaking world, those posts are not being policed or looked at or considered false to manipulate other people, you know, that's not honest. There should be for a better word than censored, but then you get into the question, who decides what is that content? Who decides what is really fake content and false content? How do they go through a process to determine yes, this is false information?

Botond Seres 8:45
Yeah, that's a whole other topic. I mean, even if you're not talking Facebook, if we try to break down the concept of something being correct, valid or acceptable, even in academia, about half, or for published research, this is flat out wrong, because most of it is built upon experiments that were built upon different experiments. Some of those were, of course, incorrect. But it has sort of a domino effect where you say that my search is great, because this other person did their research on it, and that has been accepted in this journal. So we take it as a generally accepted fact. Of course, it's always evolving, but I don't know. Did you experience the same thing as we did with the unspecified virus of unspecified origin where there was this huge wave of Facebook news spreaders Who would say, this is all caused by 5g.

Dave Erickson 9:56
I heard that there are a bunch of people saying that The Coronavirus was created by 5g, which, I think part of the Facebook problem or these community problems is people are losing their ability to detect bullshit, right? They basically just believe everything they hear and don't have a logical kind of content or say, 5g, How would 5g Create a virus? How would radio waves create a virus? They don't think to themselves? Well, logically, it doesn't make a lot of sense. They just say, oh yeah well, it sounds good to me.

Botond Seres 10:38
Dave, technically it's possible, but can you imagine the amount of resources that someone would have to put into this technology? It's everybody's pier radio waves.

Dave Erickson 10:47
I think people are losing their ability to think about the information they hear. They've just gotten lazy and come into this concept that whatever you read on the internet is true if it aligns with your belief, if it doesn't align with your belief, then it's obviously fake news and it's false. This is creating a real division in the world and I come back to this, this algorithm, that Facebook, but also most social media platforms are using, this concept, it's kind of like the hamster in a cage on a wheel. If you keep feeding the hamster, it keeps, you know, running on the wheel. I feel like with these people with the algorithm, it rewards people for content that inspires or creates comments. So people, instead of saying something nicely, or gently or factually, just make these really bold, false statements, exaggerated statements in order to get people's attention. And to get, you know, viewers, and for that reason, I have a problem with that concept. The question then becomes, okay, if these social media platforms wanted to do something different instead of promoting the content that gets the most reaction what would they do? What would be the solution? How would you change the algorithm to make it better? That's kind of the question. If you're gonna make a community app that was, I don't know, heavy metal world, people would come to this community who want to talk about heavy metal and promote heavy metal music and bands. If you're in the if you're the one creating this community, would you use the same algorithm that promotes the posts that get the most reactions and responses? Or would you try to do something different?

Botond Seres 13:05
I mean, I wouldn't 100% do something different, not in the same way that you think right now, but I am still a big fan of not only liking but also disliking things. So I mean, personally, I always prefer a platform where things can be downloaded where they can only be upvoted. I've seen that Facebook was the first to take away people's ability to dislike things. This is ancient history. There are a lot of people who don't even remember that you could actually dislike a post on Facebook, they were the first true pioneers in this. We can see that this kind of mentality leads to this kind of algorithm. That may be okay, or it may not be okay. I still very much like Reddit for this reason. If you have a scientific question, that someone who is not too wise in the ways of science just asks, can I put a fork in the microwave. there will be like, 10,000 answers of Yeah, go ahead. Sure. Well, of course, naturally, the top voted COVID will be like, it's totally safe. But also there will be a lot of people actually suggesting something dangerous or immoral, that just gets downloaded straight into the abyss. That may be more up to the community itself rather than the algorithm. It's also an interesting question, where do you draw the line between a benevolent algorithm and a deeply malicious one. If I want to search Google, is it okay if I search for a pizza place that I get results in Budapest, and you get results in San Francisco, is that still on the line of completely moral and acceptable? I think we can agree on that one. But let's say if I tried to search for something different like software, I know some things and if I search for certain things like, why is my phone doing this? I immediately get the result that I'm looking for, from the depths of some effort, given the forum to just change this setting in the 10 levels deep in the menu. But someone else who's not so wise in the ways of science might get the result like, yeah, just reinstall your phone. Is that still morally acceptable? That is really difficult to tell?

Dave Erickson 15:58
Yeah, I think that this is a big question that these platforms are trying to figure out, or society is trying to figure out. It's very strange and this may be a good segue to our next topic about the internet. It's very strange that our society is now shifting globally where information is coming from the internet and that information is based, not necessarily on data, but on opinion. I know exactly what you mean, when I have an issue in my life, or a problem or something I need to solve, one of the first places I go to is the internet. And I go on a search engine, and there's a bunch of them, and I just type in, what is the tallest mountain in the world? It's really funny, because no matter what question you put in, you're getting answers from society. And some of them are fact based where they say it is this mountain is this many feet tall and somebody may also say, Mount Star Track is the tallest mountain in the world. And you know, it may get promoted, you may actually see it on your Google feed or whatever search you use, and some people actually will take that as a piece of information. So okay, yeah, because they don't know, right? They're trying to find an answer, or as you said, in some technical forum, you know, people say one thing, but then somebody else has another and it sounds good and it sounds right, but it actually isn't, or is taken out of context. That kind of thing now and people's whole lives now are centered on finding information through the internet. So I guess the question is, how much internet is too much internet?

Botond Seres 18:03
Oh, that's a great segue. I think we're ready to accept sponsors on this podcast. If we could keep this level of segues, then we are golden. So the question is, how would you do this with too much Internet? Yeah, We have been talking about these bits before the show in the greenroom and I think the main takeaway from my side is really, is how we use the internet. It's not so much how much but how. So, what's the difference between watching TV or watching Netflix? Like is someone who's watching TV better than someone who's watching Netflix?

Dave Erickson 18:54
Or that is kind of an important point, because when you watch TV, you're getting opinions, you're getting facts and you're getting data as well. But if you watch a news program, a lot of news programs now are tied to ratings, how many people watch them, and so the news programs are becoming more and more opinion based. That opinion, you know people want to hear their own beliefs, right? If you believe that the sky is green, and you have a news station that tells you every day, you know, the sky is green, all those people who say it's blue, they're wrong, it's false information is green. You know, they feel like oh, well, yes, I know. It's green. So now they know. They're telling me it's green. So people are trying to, you know, get that from TV as well as the internet. If you go on and ask the question in a forum or in a community, is the sky green? You're going to get some people saying yes, it's green. It's green. It really is. You're going to like those posts, and those posts will get more and more acceptance. And more and more people say, well, you know what, it is green. So you get that from TV as well as the internet. In the past, I remember before the internet, if you wanted information, you had to get it out of a book, which was usually published or a magazine where there's people who were checking it and working on it. Or you would get it from a TV news station or a newspaper, because you didn't have that many friends to talk to. So, if you talk to your group of friends, you might end up talking to 10 people, not, you know, 10 million. Whereas on the Internet, it's more like 10 million, or 100 million. So the way that happens is a little bit different, but it seems like the process is very similar. You could spend all day on the internet, I do spend a lot of time on the internet, mostly using it as a tool to do business or communicate, even this podcast is done on the internet. So, you know, I have a young daughter, and the question we're asking is, does she like to watch stuff on Netflix and the internet? How much time do we have her do that? We don't want her all day. When people grow up, if you have control of your life, I guess if you wanted to, you could spend all day on the internet. I know a lot of gamers, they spend all day gaming, for them, you know, it could be a problem. You have social issues with people who are actually near you versus virtually and health wise, if you don't take care of yourself and exercise and go outside every now and then it could be a problem. You know, but if someone spends eight hours on the internet, is that too much? Or is it really a question of, what are you doing on the internet versus how much time you're spending?

Botond Seres 22:14
Yeah, there's that but now, let me paint you the hypothetical. So if I had a son, I wouldn't care how much time he spends on the internet what I would care about is that he goes to the gym, preferably every day, works out nuts, you know, hopped up on caffeine, like most people do it just like, goes there and gets a proper workout in every day. And that's pretty much it. In school I don't know, I don't really have an opinion on it, or I would prefer not to share. I'm seeing that eventually, everything is going to be on the internet, it already is like this is the world we live in, like everything is already on the internet. I mean, if you want to watch movies, Netflix, watch a news program, YouTube, or you want to ask some people about something generic, Quora, or whatever else you want, check out the map Google Maps, or if you want to talk to somebody on Skype or Discord. This is just what it is. Generally, this is a highly opinionated thing. So don't take this out of context. But it doesn't matter what you do on the internet, or how much time you spend on the internet. What matters is what else you do in your life.

Dave Erickson 23:51
I think that's a really good point. I think people need to be aware of that and how things fit together. You can abuse anything or do something too much. I think for the internet, you have to find your balance and, in times of Corona, it's hard to have personal relationships to begin with, so everything's over the internet, everything's virtual. But, you know, hopefully that changes and people will be able to meet, go out and be safe. I really think that it's how you use the internet or how it fits into your life that really matters versus how much you use the internet. Everybody gets to figure that one out. Well, I do like to do the last topic of the day, just because it's kind of part of technology and part of this. Tesla just got evaluated as a trillion dollar business, which is quite large, and Tesla is becoming very interesting. They've chosen a business model where they're doing all kinds of things. They have solar, they have battery powered, they have electric cars. The reason their evaluation is so high is that electric vehicles now are becoming basically what they think the majority of cars and motor vehicles will be. In the next 10 years. I read something like they're estimating that EVs will be about 50% of all the vehicles on the road in about 10 years. I don't necessarily agree with that 100%, but I can understand why people would think that that's a path that it's taking, and Tesla is a brand that is associated with electric vehicles. Electric vehicles are nice, but if you have solar to charge them, they become nicer. And the fact is that Tesla is also doing solar as well as energy storage, which is just as important. I have neighbors that have the complete package, they have a Tesla car, Tesla solar on their roof, and a Tesla power wall battery on their house, and they're very happy with that kind of ecosystem. It's going to be interesting to see if there are companies, particularly the automotive companies that will be able to challenge Tesla in this market.

Botond Seres 26:45
The only company that can really challenge that side at this point, does it on a regular basis is our old pal Jeff, so Amazon, but they have a wildly different business structure. Both companies are just different in every possible way. I'm just so jealous of people, I'm going to be brutally honest here. I'm so jealous of people who got their brand new Tesla, their solar roof, their power wall, their everything I mean, it must be lovely. And that brings me to the point that Tesla's businesses are selling dreams. They're not selling products and they have not been selling products from the beginning, they always sold dreams to people. If we go back far enough, they saw the dream of being able to drive electric cars from the East Coast to the West and back. That was one of the original dreams that they had or the next one that I can distinctly remember is the Tesla Robo taxi. Musk even said that it's madness to buy anything but a Tesla, because why would you buy anything else when you can have a robo taxi that earns you money? I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to sound like I don't like Tesla, I absolutely love it, I think the products that they make are exceptional. What I don't agree with is the hero worship. It's about this company.

Dave Erickson 28:21
Yeah. Musk used that, even with SpaceX, he's selling a dream, we're gonna all go and live on Mars and he is kind of portraying himself as the hero of spaceflight as well as with Tesla. Tesla, one of their business strategies is to be very vertical. Same with SpaceX, right, they have a factory company that is producing the stainless steel that is used in both cars and in their rocket ships. And he's looking at maybe just buying that and owning the whole material side of it. They have their own chip manufacturing, which is one of the reasons why Tesla's production hasn't been interrupted as much. Yeah, they make their own chips.

Botond Seres 29:21
This news to me.

Dave Erickson 29:22
They just kind of released one. So, I think that's a very smart business strategy for him. There's a lot to admire about it. He works his people hard. So there's also equally complaints that they work too hard. They don't have enough breaks. That's the same complaint that people have about Amazon as well. And whether you believe that or not, if you know, it is up to your own experience. But on the other hand, if they were treating people so badly, they wouldn't have as many employees as they have.

Botond Seres 29:57
With let's face it, Dave, we are not going to be the richest people in the world by being nice. Yeah, exactly. It's not how this works.

Dave Erickson 30:04
It's not how it works. But I think Tesla is in a very interesting situation. I like watching the company, how they're evolving, and I particularly like SpaceX and how they're evolving. But we will see. But, you know, obviously, Elon Musk is a powerful force. As one of the richest men in the world, if not the richest man in the world. He's got a lot of life ahead of him, and he's got big dreams. You know, he can be just as petty as Jeff Bezos, but Jeff Bezos is maybe pettier on a larger scale or something. I don't know. I've watched interviews with both of them and I wouldn't consider either one of them to be, how would you say, the most generous people on Earth, but they are focused on what they want and they both are kind of selling a kind of dream. But if anybody sells dreams, it's really Elon Musk. He's much better at it than Bezos.

Botond Seres 31:11
For sure. I mean, Bezos is incredibly good at what he does, he sells goods and services and that's it. He's great at that and that's why they are head to head. There is always a battle between dreams and whatever tangible things we can have. That is, like Yeah that's a battle that extends to our daily lives. I mean, every day, it's like, invest money, buy things?

Dave Erickson 31:45
Well, I mean, for Amazon, I would love to try to get Amazon out of my life, but their service is so good that if I'm going to buy something on the internet, I'm going to go to Amazon first to see if I can find it there. And it's usually the fastest delivery at the best price. That's not something you can argue with, there's a reason. I happen to like my car, which is not, an electric vehicle and, you know, it's probably gonna last another 10 or 15 years, bit I'm happy with my V six engine and, you know, we have LED lights in our house, and we conserve water, so we do what we can for the environment. But, you know, I'm going to keep driving my gasoline car. And even though we have solar on our house, I'm not in a hurry to have an electric vehicle. I know that a lot of people are and I'm seeing even in my own neighborhood, the amount of electric vehicles that people are getting, so I think that's going to be the future.

Botond Seres 32:52
Yeah, me too. I would love to get an electric car. Don't get me wrong, I love my car. It's been working perfectly fine for 30 years, it's probably got another 30 in it easily. But still, an electric is like a whole different beast. That's it. I mean, It's like the torque man, it's crazy. I just had the chance to drive the Hyundai Kona, which is arguably a much worse car than any test on the market, even like, PD 65 from so many years ago. Still, it is just such a huge improvement on any other car I've ever tried. We have this car sharing service here, I'm sure you're swimming in car sharing services too. I had the chance to try out the new BMW CLA SB shooting brake, and then two days later, I tried this Hyundai Kona, which is basically the same year, same price range, but electric, and it's no contest. There's just no contest between the two. Personally, for me, the range has never been an issue. So I would be fine with the first ideation. So, what do I do everyday? I go to the gym and I come back from the gym, maybe go shopping every once in a while, but that's it. If I have to go far, that's always by air. I mean, I'm not gonna drive for 12 hours. That's ridiculous. So what do you think about the driving experience side of things? Have you tested anything?

Dave Erickson 34:47
I've driven in a Tesla Model three. It's a nice experience. I agree, the torque is really nice. It's a reasonably comfortable car, but I like the feel of the engine making noises and the way a combustion engine drives, not for speed, but just in feeling. I have a six speed mini as well and I love driving that car. Just because it's like driving a go kart, it doesn't have luxury, it rattles, it makes a lot of noise, you can feel every input in the gas pedal. It's just a different experience. I can really understand why people like electric cars and I'm not saying I will never have one, but my gas engine cars, I'm going to let them die their natural death and keep them running as long as possible. Then at that point, when I have to get a new car, I would consider an electric car and I look forward to the ones that will be out there in 10 or 15 years.

Botond Seres 35:55
You know what's the fun thing about what you just said is that it sounds like environmentally and other responsible things to do or irresponsible things to do, but being real. And looking at the numbers, it's way more environmentally friendly to just use your car for 30 or 50 more years than to buy an electric now, because just the process of making them is so insanely polluting. I think you and I both are waiting for the Genesis, an electric auto desirable. You can find that they have some proper solid state batteries, but that seems so far away. It's kind of like fusion, I get that fusion is always 30 years away. The solid state batteries are always five years away. They've been five years away 20 years ago, they are five years away nowow. Fusion was 30 years away 100 years ago, and it's still 30 years away now. I don't know what's going on with these industries. So it would be great to talk with software that actually knows what's going on.

Dave Erickson 37:07
Well, we will try to get someone like that on our podcasts in the near future. But anyways, Botond this has been a great discussion. I look forward to our next podcast. in the next month. Until then, let's have a great day and enjoy tech, technology and business.

Botond Seres 37:26
Thank you Dave.

Dave Erickson 37:28
Thank you very much for taking this journey with us. Join us for our next exciting exploration of technology and business in the first week of every month. Please help us by subscribing, liking and following us on whichever platform you're listening to or watching us on. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and please let us know any subjects or topics you'd like us to discuss in our next podcast by leaving a message for us in the comment sections or sending us a Twitter DM till next month. Please stay happy and healthy.