ScreamingBox Technology & Business Rundown

Speakers Davit Tsitsko, Dave Erickson, Botond Seres

Dave Erickson 0:00
You did the calculations, and your business dreams are bigger than your home market, you need to dominate the world. On this ScreamingBox Podcast, we're going to talk about doing business internationally, and what it takes to go global. Please like our podcast, subscribe to our channel to get notified when the next podcast is released.

Does it seem like your own market is too small? So how would you do business in another country? Welcome to the ScreamingBox technology and business rundown podcast in this podcast Botond Seres and I, Dave Erickson are looking to go international and talk about investing and doing business internationally with Davit Tsitsko, CEO of Tsitsko Holdings. Davit is a serial entrepreneur and an angel investor living between the fabulous country of Georgia and sunny Cyprus; founder and CEO of Tsitsko Holdings, where he oversees several successful startups and companies involved in diverse industries such as energy, IT, media, online retail, and others. So Davit, when did you decide to start looking at doing business internationally?

Davit Tsitsko 1:32
Thanks, Dave, I decided to start my business internationally, when I realized that the market I was operating was too small. So basically, in, in fabulous Georgia, we have only 4 million inhabitants. So as the business was growing, we saw that it was necessary to, to grow and to grow on different continents. And we had a really, really, let's say, ambitious plan to conquer each continent each year. And yeah, of course, it failed. But at the end, we, we will achieve to develop our business on the continent and Europe. Now, we are planning to come to you, to North America. So we try our best to develop that way.

Dave Erickson 2:29
When you started, how did you start out in business? What was, what was your first business and where did you focus in?

Davit Tsitsko 2:37
Involved Into IT. So I was working 10 years in IT field, I was working on various positions, positions, including hardware, software, and then that last job that I had was very good. And, you know, I don't remember exactly who said but one man said that is, there is nothing worse than high pain, stable job, you know, so, during, during my high paying a stable job when I was sitting and just you know, enjoying my life, I realized that I was stuck. And I was stuck in the place with, you know, benefits but, but same time I was not developing as a person, I was not developing as a professional and I decided to somehow analyze myself, which which, you know, we don't do much, you know, we don't we don't we don't try to see ourselves from the real life perspectives and we don't think usually about our, you know, weaknesses, or our strong sides. And then I realized that from my childhood, I had really, really strong skill, which was talking and I realized that, that this might be used very nicely in the business. And we started our first company 2016. I started with my partner, was not my friend, we just knew each other from the job and you know, we met we, we, we talk approximately 10 minutes, we set a couple of really nice innovative ideas and we said okay, let's let's let's do it something. And Georgia, thankfully, it's very easy to start the company, you only need one day to do it, and it's pretty cheap. And I remember we shared the amount that was necessary to incorporate the company. We started to push very innovative high end technologies to import them in Georgia and we failed. But then later on, we realized that our niche was completely different. We started to focus more on to energy Up until very nice brands, we use our engineering skills to develop. And after, after two operating years, so, this was 2017, and 18, we achieved seven figures. And we started to develop this was my vision to develop, like a tree, you know, to develop not as a department inside of one company, rather than split it to the different directions of the businesses and, we succeeded. And we had a big failures. And you know, it's a simple business stuff.

Dave Erickson 5:37
In business, it is the failures that you learn from, and make you stronger. And, so when you started reaching out and doing business in other countries, you're sure you had some success, but I'm sure you also had some failure. Maybe you can follow a little bit about that.

Davit Tsitsko 5:58
Yes, I think, I think, me personally, I always enjoy when the successful people or any kind of people tell more about their failures. Because I think, I think you can, you can catch pretty interesting details into that, you know, and the biggest failure during my international business experience was the culture issues. You know, we started retail business in Cyprus, and we faced very much very interesting trends in terms of the sales, which we were not prepared for, for example, in Cyprus, they have their name day, and they are preparing for that day, and the sales were peaking at some point when we were not prepared for it. So I think if we're talking about international business, one should consider a lot of very interesting factors. And we failed, of course, many times, not only in international matters, but also remember, we founded the company, we imported very innovative stuff into the country. And the market just refused to buy or rent or any kind of activities, and we failed. And that was one of the biggest failures of ours. I was CEO of the company, I'm not proud of it, but I'm proud that I learned a lot of the lot out of ,the of this case. Beside that we also encountered, for example, the language issues, you know, because it's very, very culturally bonded, you know, that the language and unit engagement, obviously, when you're doing retail business and social media, which is not easy when you don't know the language, because I remember first time we started that retail, we of course, we got some, some inquiries in Greek a and we were using Google Translate in order to translate the inquiry what they wanted and to respond in Greek as well, because we thought that was very nice idea, because they, you know, everyone loves when you're answering to the native language. And, and sometimes we got, you know, questions, why did you wrote to me this, because Google Translate sometimes doesn't translate it, it should be, you know, and then, you know, explanations that we are not native speakers, you know, and many, many challenges, many failures with deliveries, I don't know. It's, retail business is a hard business. It's a pretty hard one.

Dave Erickson 8:49
Yes, it is challenging even in the United States, right now, a lot of retail businesses are struggling, trying to adapt to online business, but also the inflation that is, it came in the last two years and other things. So it's very interesting and I'm keeping an eye on that. I'm very curious where retail is going to go. For us, it's really difficult because sometimes you want things in, you want it now. And so your response is go to the store, and half the time that you go to the store the thing you want, they just physically don't have it and you end up ordering it on Amazon anyways.

Davit Tsitsko 9:32
I think it's too, I mean, if you ask me, the future of retail, for me is just, just the logistics at the end to move the boxes from, from China or very industrial countries up to the less industrial countries but I think I think some kind, some sort of stores will disappear. You know, brick and mortar or stores. And I think in the future, there should be more development into the fulfillment services, big warehousing, you know, to deliver the goods immediately, because that's what the consumer needs.

Botond Seres 10:13
So Davit, you mentioned something before, which kind of struck a chord with me, is when you said that you realized at some point that the market you operated in was simply not large enough. And let's, I wonder, what, what was the moment when you knew? What, what did it feel like?

Davit Tsitsko 10:33
You know, I, I was a IT guy, I was good at math, but I'm not into the financials, I, you know, I don't like accounting, as most of engineers, you know, and up to the moment when the company is growing, actually, you, you think only to be in line with law, you don't calculate, you know, return on equity, cash conversion cycles, and those very, like financial, you know, measurements. And, of course, you don't have money to, I don't know, have a really nice PI or, you know, any kind of financial analytics tools. And as we grow, I realized that there was a lot of these kinds of financial terms and financial numbers that we should, you know, simply rely on or analyze. And during one of these analyses, I realized that the market size, the market capacity was not enough, because basically, there are certain amounts of the people companies will have certain amounts of the market share. And when we look at our numbers that we are growing, we know that it's impossible to have, like, 50% of the market share or, or 70% of the market share, because we have competition, and I realized that the only way to grow with more was to somehow, you know, go out out of borders, and, you know, somehow conquer new markets and see, see the challenges and see the bigger markets. But also, as I mentioned, in the beginning, the idea of mine was not not to have like, one, you know, one field of the business, for example, energy, but to, you know, spread it a lot in different markets, different different companies. So I think that was the moment when I realized when I started to counting, there was no more room at some point. Of course.

Botond Seres 12:35
That makes a lot of sense, but I think there was another direction, which you could have gone in, if you wanted, and that's like vertical integration. So you could have just tried to cut costs on the manufacturing side by purchasing, let's say, a subsidy, or I'm not sure how that works, but I'm wondering what your thought process was to expand the laterally instead of vertically with the business.

Davit Tsitsko 13:00
Its deep inside into my childhood. I say it all the time like this, because I remember myself, when, when, when I was when I first saw the computer, it was when I was nine years old. And I remember how interested I was, into it. And I was not playing the games, but rather, I was trying to somehow see what are the parts, how does it work? I remember, I was asking very, very tricky questions to my father. Like, for example, I didn't know if you know, floppy disks, which, yeah, and I asked once my, my dad, where does the information go, after I delete it from the floppy disk? And I remember, he was like, he's also an engineer. And he was like, I don't know. So I was pretty interested into the, into the systems, in same time, thanks again, to my family. I was very good that, you know, coming on the concerts and the confidence, yeah, you know, you know, leading the concerts telling very nice boy names. And I was, you know, I was, I call myself a very hybrid guy, because I can talk and at the same time, I can be very technical. So it was a combination of both of it. And I think that was deeply into my nature, into my character and into my, you know, family and childhood experiences, when I was interested into many, many things. And these things were not really, you know, I was acting on the theater, same time I was, I was studying on the on the it in my university. So basically, it was all the time this mashup and I think that, I mean, I think in those years, your vision is simply you know, like creating yourself. And you said, Yeah, this might be also, good point to start to vertically develop the business but the nature of our business was simply importing stuff. And then taking care of it, you know, to have engineers on site to support the system, to sell a big UPS systems and to support are later on. And as Georgia as a country has not a lot of industry in it, it was not possible to somehow, you know, create this, it's, it's not that easy to manufacture up a system, unfortunately, in Georgia, so we have to import, that was only one way and the second thing was also competition, because we were competing with the companies that were 25 years old, 30 years old. So it's very hard, you know, to maintain that kind of, you know, but also, I think it's about the market demand, what do you have, so what the people need, and what you can deliver out of there. This is also one of the biggest topics. But I think it's about the vision at the end that that was the vision that I had to somehow you know, do this.

Botond Seres 16:12
Oh of course, maybe in the future then.

Davit Tsitsko 16:17
yeah, now, now I have a factory now I have it I manufacture Yeah, I manufacture substations. These are transformers substations, power transformers substations, we have metal fabrication factory.

Botond Seres 16:31
This takes a lot of wires.

Davit Tsitsko 16:35
Yes, there is a lot of wires. We are using switchboard we're using a lot of energy related equipments. But we just started like last quarter. So basically, we are pretty new in that. But yeah, but yeah, because we, you know, I always say in the beginning, you should not choose the you know, you shouldn't say when you are in the beginning of the business that I'm going to do exactly like this, you know, because you never know. Because sometimes, you know, the business life takes you to throw the lot of, you know, very interesting course. And we were searching I think that niche. And last year, I did exit from my two companies, and I focused on the energy more and yeah, I'm doing that you that you that you recommend that. Basically I'm building from energy generation after the light bulb, that's my idea to build whole chain.

Botond Seres 17:36
Sounds great. So when you say up to the light bulb? I'm not sure I understand how the light bulb comes into the picture.

Davit Tsitsko 17:47
Yeah, so basically in energy business, we have energy generators, so thermal power plants, hydropower plants, I don't know, wind, solar. So the guys who are generating energy then we have a distributors. So guys like me who are building power transmission lines are building you know, this, this, the infrastructure to distribute energy from a to b we have utility guys for delivering the but distribution and utility, we are very near to each other. We're delivering the electricity to your homes, to our homes. And then we have retail guys who are selling you know, light bulbs, television, you know, all the equipment that are necessary in order to operate on that electricity. I mean, it's a rough, it's not really detailed diagram. But roughly that's the system, how it works. And my idea is to create the company that will have all of the fields of drainage. So basically now we have critical power infrastructure. So we are importing UPS, generators and those critical power, we have power transmission. So we are distributing the energy from the last quarter of this year, we were going to start to generate solar energy. So this will be generation and all the retail is left because as I told you already, it's very hard. For me it's a lot of hassle. So I think in a couple of years you know at the end when, when everything is settled, we will open the small shop and we're gonna sell you know this electric equipment. But yeah, light bulb is just you know, the expression to show you the last point yes.
Dave Erickson 19:37
Well, Davit, when you started to think I'm gonna go outside of Georgia, what was, kind of your process or your thought strategy? How did you pick another country? What did you have to do anything to prepare yourself or you just said I'm going to go there and just start doing business?

Davit Tsitsko 19:58
The thing is that when I was starting the business, I reached out to my one good friend who was doing 10 years already the business. And he got me, I think best advice in the world. He said, you start to seek the client, and then deliver the product. So this was his mindset. And I really took this advice. So as a matter of Europe, for example, when we first started our company in Poland. Our idea is very simple, we got very nice client, we got very nice project, but they needed an EU company in order to give us that project. So we started to seek for the opportunities what, which country was better to start it, and due to immigration limitations of Georgia, because in those years, we had no visa free movement to Europe, it was pretty hard. It was some kind of taxes, tax issues. So we found the Poland, which has like comfortable immigration rules, in terms of, you know, immigrating the workforce, and, you know, I'm go doer, even though I do a lot of mistakes sometimes. And I think that mistakes are very nice education, for everyone. I'm like, let's do it, you know, because if you think too much, sometimes you just lose the opportunities. So basically, we just went there, we started it, we operated, we closed the project successfully, it was very big step for us. Because imagine, you have like two years old company, and you are going out of the country, and you're doing the project in a very big European country, which was a big challenge. But same time we did it. But later on, we realized that it was pretty hard to operate, because I would say Europe is a little bit a little bit complicated, in terms of the bureaucracy in terms of, you know, running business, banks, it's pretty hard. Because, you know, all the time, you have to prove that your intentions are, you know, pretty business oriented, they send you a lot of letters in Polish. And sometimes it's very hard to, to answer, but I remember I was flying frequently. We were, you know, operating a lot. But then we realized that it was pretty hard. Then there was another choices of another countries, we tried some other countries, then we come up with Cyprus, because Cyprus has a lowest tax system in Europe. So it's attack seven, we started to operate it. Yeah, we started to operate it there. And I would say I'm happy because, yeah, in terms of, yeah, bureaucracy is everywhere, but in terms of, you know, taxes, and in terms of language and speaking and, you know, negotiating, I would say Cyprus is pretty, pretty good.

Botond Seres 23:21
So you say, the bureaucracy side of things is easier in Cyprus than in Poland, for example?

Davit Tsitsko 23:30
It's very hard, it's very hard to compare, because, I mean, in Poland, my issue was generally the language because no one wants to speak with you in English. I speak five languages, but none of them works. So, yeah, I was hiring the translator, you know, translators go into the, this, a lot of offices, you know, for example, for VAT I remember I fly I flew that, I think it was two or three times together with the translator. And I was like, you know, trying pretty hard to explain to them why I needed the, the, you know, to register my company on a VAT, and I was showing the contract that I have the contract with a European company, I need to you know, but it was hard. The big advantage of Cyprus in terms of it is the language because, you know, everyone is speaking English and you can simply Yeah, yeah, so that's a big advantage. But in terms of the edge, yeah, it's a big advantage. But in terms of the papers, I would not say there is some big big difference because you know, it's sorted out system. You cannot change a lot of things there. But I would say for, for Europe, the biggest, biggest challenge is the banking system now. Because it's very hard. Of course, there is a reasons for it. I know. But for the you know, for the entrepreneurs, who have pure heart to do something to start something to operate. And when you are in the beginning, you cannot fill up all these big documents that are stating what will be exactly your business line, how much you're gonna earn exactly next year. You know,

Botond Seres 25:21
I remember, I tried a few times to just prepare the documentation to get a business loan, but to give up every time.

Davit Tsitsko 25:31
Yeah, because because, I mean, I was speaking about it with many banks in Poland, in Cyprus in many other countries, you know, and I was telling them, guys, I mean, it's impossible when you just found the company and it's impossible to predict what will be exactly your income next year. And if your income is less than there are extra questions and if your income is, you know, you should not think about it, but it's even more than he predicted, then it's another story, you know, how come you call me. So I think that's the biggest, you know, biggest challenge. But I can say a couple of positive things about Georgian banks, because it's much, much better, I would say and much developed, you can solve issues online, not only not only, you know, with this paperwork. The banks in Georgia have very nice developed internet banks. They are one of the best in Europe, I would say. So it's much easier. And we taxes also, you know, Georgia is competitive. Now, we have pretty nice taxes. So I would say after immigrating two years after, you know, being in more than 30 countries and trying to do business in at least half of them. I realized that in my homeland it is also not bad.

Dave Erickson 26:52
The grass always seems greener on the other side, but when you get there, it always isn't.

Davit Tsitsko 26:58
Yes, and I think I think it's pretty, pretty classical story, when you when you go out of the car, and look at your car, and you love it. And up to the moment when you're sitting inside, you always say it's a crap. I think that that was like classical issue of mine, I needed to come out of the car in order to look at it.

Dave Erickson 27:28
Well, it seems like you know, doing business outside of your own country, you really have to kind of understand what are the requirements of where you're going to go do business, particularly if it's a physical product, or you're trying to establish some kind of retail location. But I think even nowadays, with internet products, and E-commerce and shipping and mailing products all over the world, there's also a lot of issues related to taxes, sales, tax, all that type of stuff that a business has be aware of, before they go into a new market. Is that correct?

Davit Tsitsko 28:09
Yes. I think if you're really intended to do the business, you know, abroad, the first thing you should do, you should go to the market players, but not the biggest ones. And you should somehow, you know, friendly way, ask them what are the problems? And then go, you know, I was in the US, you know, that couple of weeks ago, and I was attending very, very, very nice exhibition. And now I learned, you know, I went to the booth. And I asked the guys, what were the problems, you know, what kind of issues they had, you know, product delivery, as you mentioned, taxes something something, and then you realize that what could be a challenge for you, you know, because if I say that you have to go and do this, like, you know, 100k price tag, the market research, which are, you know, from 19th century doesn't give you anything, I think that's not true, because what you can do, you can travel like one week, somehow reach out these guys and just ask them, you know, a couple of questions about how they ran business, what are the issues that they are, you know, encountering, and they, you know, everyone is telling you that, you know, no one is hiding because that's the problem that I have. So I think this is the, I think the best advice you can give someone who is thinking to, you know, go abroad. And of course, you can do the research. If this issue rely on the papers.

Dave Erickson 29:52
I was in the gaming industry and one of the ways that we worked on developing product is I would go to all these big Uh, gaming events throughout the world. And I would just sit there talking to the gamers talking to the companies who are selling to the gamers, and I would hear, what are their issues? And what are their problems? And then we could incorporate that into any product design, and then the marketing and sales, right.

Davit Tsitsko 30:19
Yeah, I think pain points are most important. And, and, you know, I think it also depends. So now sorry, all of my businesses that are b2b, only one I have b2c. So now my my I, you know, I'm speaking in terms of b2b because in retail, it's a completely different story, you cannot stop some people on the street and ask them, what are the problems but, but in terms of b2b, thankfully, we have this kind of, you know, exhibitions, this kind of gathering industry gatherings or industry key players, you can reach them out and just simply talk with me now, and you will, we will see, where is the niche? You know, should I try that or that?

Botond Seres 31:01
So, I mean, you say that, it's not so easy to go from person to person on the street, to ask them for the individual problems, but they do find that a lot of people we talk with, actually do believe that's a great idea to just, like, let's say, I want to produce gym equipments. I go to my nearest gym, and I just ask everyone which machine you hate the most? And why?

Davit Tsitsko 31:33
Yeah, so, again, I think it's, it depends what kind of business you're running. And it depends what, whom do you, you know, reach out? I think they would agree with me that, you know, engineers are very honest, and very humorous people, you know, if you come to them anywhere in the world, and that's my you know, you know, I would say, in every country I've been, if you reach out to engineers, it's you know, they are very honest, they tell you any problem they have. So, I think it depends on the, which kind of business you are in, if we are talking about the gym, and I'm not expert, because last couple of months, I never went to the gym, unfortunately. So, I would say I would say, if it's a retail business, I would say we need to somehow trust social media, we need to somehow trust, you know, digital world in that we need to somehow, for example, and new trend is to create the game in order to gain this kind of data, you know, for example, now I'm in, in progress of funding, one of the greatest startups I ever met, which is solving HR issues, like, you know, hiring issues, and they created the game and when the candidates are playing the game, actually generates you the very nice skill set or how they are developed, or do they have these leadership skills or which kind of skills they have. So I think, next in this to somehow find the pain points, what big gaming or some kind of this interactive, because Gen Z is taking over, you know, very soon have the most of the jobs and most of the wealth, I would say, so I think this is the next you know, now we see ARs, we see VRs, we see more virtual worlds, and I think something related to it, because this data can be like, huge, but you know, not in terms of the names and surnames and all these, you know, just simply male, 25 years old, you know, this, this, this, this, and we can find, because, as far as I remember, I was reading some research that according to some research, advertising is not not not working on the Gen Z anymore, you know, so it's pretty hard to find the pain points in order to focus on that.

Botond Seres 34:16
I'm not sure about that. I mean, that is something I do read sometimes, but I do read the Gen Z side of things as well. And they tend to say that they just don't have disposable income. It is what it is.

Davit Tsitsko 34:30
Okay, of course, I mean, that because because they, yeah they are still young, I would say but but but but in 5-10 years, I think they will take over 45% of the of the world's jobs as far as I as I read. So yeah. They will have money. And they should, which is more important than shields for sure.

Botond Seres 34:56
We'll see. I hope so. I'm rooting for every generation to have their

Davit Tsitsko 35:01
No, I think, I think every generation has their own flows. You know, I remember, I remember my, I mean, when, when my wife told me that there was a story that when the Umbrella was invented, people were against it. People said that, you know, you are against the God's will that is coming from the sky, you know, and you're refusing that. So, I think, I think we all have these flows, each generation has, you know, on challenges. And yeah, we developed technologically in developing this world, and they have to continue. No, I mean, they have to…

Botond Seres 35:38
They are changing, like we, we do see an unprecedented amount of change in generations, like, what are some of the largest changes in history, like, industrialization, for one, but not just in the last 20 years we went from an ownership based economy to a subscription based economy.

Davit Tsitsko 36:00
Yes, we are heading there.

Botond Seres 36:02
I would argue we're already there.

Davit Tsitsko 36:07
Not fully, but yes, yes, I would say 70-80%. We are there yet.

Botond Seres 36:12
I mean, we can get housing subscription. Yes, we can get a foods, subscription, service, housing, sustenance, we can get a gym membership, that's another subscription, then we can get entertainment subscriptions like Netflix, Apple TV, Prime Video.

Dave Erickson 36:28
I mean, even software, software used to you don't buy your software. And now all software is subscription based.

Botond Seres 36:38
Remember the wars of videotapes, and DVDs based.

Davit Tsitsko 36:45
You know, on that matter, I would say that there is a point when you decide to go in the mountains, and live together with the sheeps, you know, with the cows, have an hour farm, you know, and enjoy your, your life. So I say, when the people will start to sit in small boxes with these glasses, and not come out to the street, I will do that. I'll go up in the mountains on a farm, you know, because it's, I think it's about the choices when, for example, I have eight years old, she'll be 8 April, daughter, who is using technology, you know, in a matter that I could not even imagine, you know. I remember I had the phone, which had no camera, no screen, just a black and white. And I'm not that old. And my father was telling me that he remembers that there was no cars on the street, literally. And when they saw the car, they were like jumping on the car. So I think, of course the world is developing. But on the other time, I think each generation has their own challenges. Yes, we have differential hinges. And yes, our kids will have completely different challenges. But is it good or bad? I think it's natural. I mean, for my daughter, we were in Dubai and she was I mean, we were crossing this, you know, on zebra, and she was, there was a button and she could not realize that she need to push the button. She was touching the, it's like, you know, the sign. She she I was explaining to her that this was the button.

Botond Seres 38:37
I used to be like that to be honest.

Davit Tsitsko 38:44
I mean, maybe maybe there is an age difference between us.

Dave Erickson 38:47
My wife has a Tesla and to open the door, you have to push a button, like an electronic button, not pull a lever or push, you know, something like that. And a friend of hers got in the car and they didn't you know, they just have a regular car. And she didn't know how to get out of the car. She didn't know how to get out of the car. Where's the handle?

Davit Tsitsko 39:08
to keep up the button.

Dave Erickson 39:12
So that's true. Those things are changing in life.

Davit Tsitsko 39:17
Yeah, so. Yep. Sorry.

Dave Erickson 39:19
I think that these changes make for a lot of opportunity. And that's kind of one of the other topics I want to talk about is, a little bit is you seem to you've mentioned, you've invested in a bunch of different companies. Yes. I assume some of those companies are not inside Georgia. There are other places.

Davit Tsitsko 39:41
No. Yes. Yes.

Dave Erickson 39:45
How do you, how do you go about investing in a business and particularly a business that's not local or in your own country?

Davit Tsitsko 39:52
Yes. So there are a couple of let's say, let's say tools for me to invest. So basically now i am I investing mostly into startups, into tech startups? I remember I was in in Estonia, and I love Estonia and I was there for a startup week. And I remember that I saw first time there, how the investor syndicate in order to support the local or foreign startups. So first time I saw there, how people, you know, just gather in the bar or a scene someplace, they just discussed that they had a really nice, you know, team or realized product or really nice people who they want to invest. But, you know, they just invested, you know, 5k each 10k each, and they just syndicate minimum tickets, and just just give it to the, to the startup and I was impressed with that idea, because I did not knew that it was possible. And then I always had this, you know, in my mind to do something similar, you know, this crowdfunding or some kind of syndication, in order to support but to have a smart money, not like, you know, just investing in some stocks or bonds. And, and I encountered this just the last year that you see the sign, this is a sign of our Business Angel Network, it's called Axel, which is very nice place in Georgia. So we are syndicating and investing into Georgia and international startups. And I would say that that was a very nice tool for me, in order to cover due diligence in order to, you know, learn how to invest together with more experienced investors. And I'm part of it, and I'm proud to be part of Axel. There are other tools as well, there are a couple of very nice websites, I would say. A couple of them are very active in us, which gives you opportunity to also invest, but in smaller portions in to read the businesses like breweries, cafes, you know, various types of the US based or EU based businesses, and I'm using that tools as well in order to be part of, and the third one is direct investing that I'm doing. So I'm, if I'm willing to into some kind of idea, or team or product. So I always go together with a team. I'm trying to be, you know, according to my time involved, and I'm in all of my companies, I'm involved, it is the strategy guy. So strategy, and director or strategy guru or strategy Fox, already kind of have the relation with the strategy, and I try to support and I try to provide not only money, but you know, this experience, you know, my vision, my contacts, you know, so simply trying to develop, you know, sustainable economy around the globe.

Botond Seres 43:15
So is sustainability close to your heart.

Davit Tsitsko 43:21
Yes, I'm part of the Global Compact. Un. Yeah, I would say there are very ambitious plans. I mean, I'm the energy guy, you know, I have to say that there's the plants that some people in some countries, and some unions have are very ambitious, I mean, to get this kind of clean energy out of nowhere. Now, it's impossible. And everyone, everyone is talking in the energy you know, about this? The only way I see and I am pro-nuclear, so I would say the only way to do it, it's, yeah, it's nuclear. But on the other hand, I don't believe in you know, creating, creating, you know, removing co2 in one part of the world and, you know, moving it to the different it's not sustainability, guys. I mean, I'm very honest, you know, I'm very honest guy. But in terms of real sustainability, what I mean by real sustainability is that, you know, we were discussing now, very important topics, what what are we are giving to our generation? Yeah, what what are we are living with what? So I think that's the real sustainability, you know, we, we need to create, so I try to invest into into people in the in the products that are creating something good. you know? On my LinkedIn, just a couple of, I think it was yesterday I was posting, guys, okay, stop creating startups with API API, crypto, blockchain something, you know, just do some, you know, st other things, you know, I think that's the sustainability. If you need something, you should get it. And it should be simple it should not be based on the blockchain to ever over and in your home.

Dave Erickson 45:14
Like you I have a daughter, young daughter, and anybody who has children, need to think, you know, What world are we going to leave them? How are we going to make the world better, because, you know, if their future is water and food shortages, and and you know, high temperatures and not enough opportunity, that's not a good future for our children. And anything we can do besides moving carbon around, but you know, there's some real serious answers and solutions to some of our problems, and it will take a lot of work. But if enough people are thinking about it, and orienting their ideas for business around doing some business that helps the future generation live better. I think it'll be positive.

Davit Tsitsko 46:15
I think the biggest lack in this community is this kind of, you know, speakers who kind of speak the real things, not this, you know, I'm not gonna say the world, that sometimes the people I say, you know, because you should, you know, you should not collect in Switzerland, like 200 peoples with the private jets and speak about, you know, speaking about two degrees Celsius in the air, you should just do something that's, that's where I am, you know, I always say that, I'm always about to do something rather than to, you know, I love to speak, but better to do than to speak, you know, that's, I think, we need more this kind of guys who are gonna who are gonna tell, you know, hey guys come on, it's just not the word, but do something. And we try, you know, we try, we try.

Dave Erickson 47:11
I think there is a good opportunity to help and that is with solar, and particularly the solar combination with a battery, right? And I've seen how it's kind of transformed Southern California. Just you know, 15 years ago, there was very little solar. Now, almost every three homes has some kind of solar array on it. So much so the state is changing the laws, so they don't pay for that electricity anymore, because they have too much of it, Right. And now, the problem is storing that electricity,

Botond Seres 47:57
I got that done a few years ago. Yeah. Right.

Dave Erickson 48:02
So now the problem is, there is enough solar panels are not enough, but there's a lot of solar panels, generating a lot of electricity, but there's no way to store the electricity. So now, the emphasis is on energy storage. And I think that, that brings me back to kind of where you're going. And so I'd like to use this opportunity to talk a little bit about, what are you looking at, you said, you're going to enter the UPS market? You're doing UPSs which is a form of battery for energy storage? What do you think about those markets? And what are you thinking of doing? What What are kind of the business activities that you're focusing on?

Davit Tsitsko 48:44
Yes, so, we we start to, we are starting to import UPS systems into the US. We are bringing the very nice brand and we are bringing initial products, which which will be based on the lithium ion, which is pretty new. And in terms of the battery, yes, we have a challenge in the world because we don't have the storage technologies that that that would that would Yeah, we have something some activities about nuclear batteries for the you know, last year, there was some news, but still lithium is the you know, so far the best. So what brings the lithium, lithium brings so bigger temperature ranges.

Botond Seres 49:31
Sorry to interrupt but, don't we have ferrite batteries now? Or is that like,

Davit Tsitsko 49:38
You know, not yet. There is a technology but it's still very expensive. So in terms of the problem of the world is that we need something and we need a lot and we need chip, that's the biggest problem you know. So yes, that is lead acid which which has, you know, issues we have lithium which better and now we are in searching of red or we are searching of nuclear or some you know, which should be also reliable in which should be also much better in terms of because we see the demand in EVs are like huge. They carry, like, you know, this amount of energy that they're accumulating into the batteries would light up the house for many hours. So basically, there's a problem and we are bringing UPS systems with the lithium batteries, and the lithium is Yeah, I was talking about the range of the temperature, you know, five times more cycle. So cycle is when the battery is to zero and you just recharge it. So on average lead acid has 300 cycles, and lithium has 1500 cycles, which is much better. Yeah. So lithium is also, very small footprint. So density of the energy is very good.

Botond Seres 51:01
It’s not really a great idea to use lead acid for home, kind of power storage, you know.

Davit Tsitsko 51:06
The only, only advantage for the lead acid is the price. So, so in terms of the price, of course, the batteries are cheaper. But in terms of the you know, for example, lithium

Botond Seres 51:18
They need to be replaced five times more often.

Davit Tsitsko 51:20
Yeah, this was, this is what I wanted to, so lithium is, you know, works longer, longer years, rather than lead acid. And it's a smaller footprint, it's lighter. So basically, you can fit in. So advantage of higher UPS systems would be that we're going to have in the one box, basically more energy than the lead acid solutions. So this will be much better. So in smaller footprint, you will have the more energy, which is very nice. Also, it will work without any maintenance, yeah, lead acid, it also needs some kind of maintenance independence, for UPS systems. There are different technologies in lead acid, we call it VRLA, which is well regulated, and which is non maintenance, and which are lasting longer periods of time. But in terms of lithium, you don't need much of the maintenance at all, you know, you don't need to measure or you don't need to test it a lot, of course, and this is what we are planning. So hopefully from, from summer or September, optimistically will be on the US market and we're going to focus mainly on the, on the retail, smaller computer rooms and you know, this, this this areas of the of the US market. We are starting to operate from Florida, and to develop up to up to hopefully California through Texas and states. And yeah, this is our, our plan we already have, you know, most of the business plan already and yeah, we are, we are planning to do it.
Dave Erickson 53:15
Great. How do people get a hold of you? What's the best way through LinkedIn?

Davit Tsitsko 53:18
Yes, LinkedIn. People can find me with David Tsitsko. It's easier to reach me out but also we can share in the description my email if it's necessary. No worries, I'm all the time online.

Botond Seres 53:36
So Davit, what do you think is the future of energy?

Davit Tsitsko 53:41
I think the future of energy at night, let's, let me put it that way. I wish it was much cleaner and much sustainable than coal and then oil and then you know, this, this oil, but as we mentioned, for example, we mentioned that we need to get battery capacities for the Solars and the problem is again, the carbon dioxide which we are generating in order to create these with very big, you know, battery packs, but unfortunately, we are lacking technology. So I would, I would say I would wish we had greener battery technologies. Greener Energy, and I would say that, that I think the future of energies also that the energy would be highest demanded product on the earth because the way we are going, you know, fast that way. At some point it made me rich and I'm happy about it. It's, it's Some way I think that yes, we need, we need more, you know, sustainable approach about it. Because, you know, we already solved the result of the, you know, this industrial stuff, and then fossil fuels it, you know, it did not create a better environment for us and for our kids so, I think this, this is the future. But in terms of reality, I think the whole energy sector now is really focused on somehow generating energy in some ways, because some countries are unable to have the green opportunities, you know, just simple, they're out of options and they still need to find the ways you know, solar, wind, and, you know, many, many other options, I think, I think, and I think it's not only wish but it comes like it should be somehow, like, majority of our energy should be green, rather than black.

Botond Seres 56:01
Davit, thank you so much for giving us a better understanding of investing, and doing business on the international level.

Dave Erickson 56:09
Well, good listeners. That's about all the time we have for this episode today. But before we go, we want you to think about this important question.

Botond Seres 56:17
If you were going to expand your business, which country would be next on the list?

Dave Erickson 56:23
For our listeners, please subscribe and click on the notifications to join us for our next ScreamingBox technology and business rundown podcast. Until then, start thinking internationally.

Dave Erickson 56:38
Thank you very much for taking this journey with us. Join us for our next exciting exploration of technology and business in the first week of every month. Please help us by subscribing, liking and following us on whichever platform you're listening to or watching us on. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and please let us know any subjects or topics you'd like us to discuss in our next podcast by leaving a message for us in the comment sections or sending us a Twitter DM. Till next month. Please stay happy and healthy.