ScreamingBox Technology & Business Rundown

Dave Erickson 0:03
Planning on starting a business? You know you're going to need an investor, but how are you going to get one? On this SreamingBox podcast, we are going to discuss investment, investors and business planning. Please like our podcast and subscribe to our channel to get notified when the next podcast is released.

Dave Erickson 0:43
Like many people building a business, you might get to the point where you realize you need investment and investors to really be able to grow and succeed. Welcome to the Screamingbox Technology and Business Rundown Podcast. In this podcast, Botond Seres and I, Dave Erickson, are going to discuss investment, investors and business planning with our guest and global investor, Bernard Chong. Bernard has a billion dollar portfolio that cuts across tech startups, real estate, entertainment, construction and beyond; a serial entrepreneur and a savvy investor whose journey started with the humble beginnings selling the family shoe products in grade school and then steering the helm of World Balance, a leading footwear brand in the Philippines. His investment acumen shines through in ventures such as the award winning brand eSports, and innovative companies across animation, FnB, IT and more. Well Bernard, maybe we can start off by talking about how you got into investing in startups and businesses.

Bernard Chong 1:41
Good morning. Dave, good morning. Botond, I started when I earned money, and it’s the first time I have excess money to invest. So I decided to Angel invest on some of my friends who have business ideas. You gotta start somewhere, and you start with people. You know people, you know what their character is. So that's how I started.

Botond Seres 2:12
Brand eSports has made history on their leadership. Can you share some insights into what it takes to build a world championship winning team and the role of strategic investments in the eSports industry?

Bernard Chong 2:24
It was a blessing to win a World Champion and to be to win it twice, the m2 and m5. We all hope for the best, but of course, you just do what you can and I think it was a blessing for us. We were, we were doing all the preparations needed, all the research needed. We made sure that our players were, had a try out. So we get the best players, and we give them coaches, and then we train them. So that's the system, how, how he won the World Champion.

Dave Erickson 3:09
When you got into eSports, were you getting in more as a business investment, or were you looking at this more as a passion for you?

Bernard Chong 3:17
It was a passion and helping the kids become famous as an athlete, eSports athlete. It's not really a business, per se. I think opening an eSports to have a business is not a sure thing at that moment, because the market is still small, and I was lucky enough to able to start something and support it, because I My idea was to plant long, to plant long, to make the brand famous, and then reap the rewards from advertising and it paid off. So we had a good plan.

Dave Erickson 4:04
Maybe we can kind of start talking a little bit about that. You know, there's lots of people with business ideas and are looking to start a business. A lot of people try to bootstrap their business by themselves, but some businesses require investment because they're making hardware, or they have some big investment in tooling or development or other things, and at some point they get to a place where they know they need investing. So if a business were getting ready to attract investors and to start talking to investors. from your point of view, what are some of the first things businesses should really start focusing on and getting ready to go and approach investors?

Bernard Chong 4:57
Well, there's not really. Really a fixed time to approach investors, because some approach investors when they haven't even started yet, and some also approach investors when they finish the MVP, the minimum viable product and they can show. It really depends on the founder, how confident they are and who they know. But generally, whether you have a product or you don't have a product, you have to have a deck so the investor have an idea of what you're going to do, and the investor have an idea, if he wants to be in part of what you're doing. With me, I screen the person, because I believe growing a relationship with the person and doing their journey is more important than the money that you will get out of a good idea. So with my experience, I always check the person, test the person, and if the person seems like I want to grow old and do the journey with that person's dream, then I just put little money.

Dave Erickson 6:14
One of the important areas with investment is developing a relationship with potential investors. How do people go about doing that? Do you have ways or recommendations to people? A lot of them are engineers, they've been stuck in their office hacking code and building their product, and they're not very good at going out and talking to people or meeting people. How would you suggest somebody goes out and starts meeting potential investors?

Bernard Chong 6:44
Well, you have to be genuine on what you want and what's your dream, and you really have to have people skills. Now, as an investor, it's really important also for you to do the journey, especially if at you're at the start the seed round or the start up round, because a lot of things could go wrong. So you have to make sure that communication is always there, and they're always communicating, and the person is open to growth or suggestions. I mean, you could have a good product, or you can see a good product, but if the engineers or the founders are not good in communicating or not good in listening to advice or taking advices, then you know, it would be a hard journey. Then it's up to the investor, she still wants to reach it or not.

Botond Seres 7:39
It feels like it's almost more important to be a man of character in order to secure investments than it is to have a good product.

Bernard Chong 7:51
You are correct, because it's the people who makes the business and it's the people who runs the business too. And if you find a good character person, and you develop a good relationship with them, even though the business plan needs to pivot, pivot, then you still have a good relationship, you still have a good person dealing with with me, I rather deal with good person and face the challenges together, then having a person who will not communicate with me and there's a good product, because eventually it's the person who runs it, it's the person who decides who runs it, who thinks about it, and you will Learn also from the person, not necessarily just the product, because it's the person who will share to you the dreams, the ideas, the problems, the possible solutions. And that's where I learn.

Dave Erickson 8:54
It sounds like the journey of investment seems to involve not just a journey for the people who are building the business, but for the investor as well. And as an investor, you probably have several different journeys that you are currently on. How do you manage all of that as an investor?

Bernard Chong 9:15
Well, you kind of know that when they ask for help, they ask for advice, then you give it time, and you see how you can help them, how you see how you can connect them with people you know, or another other startup people, people who in other businesses that you can link them, they might they might help or I can ask all my organization head about my problem and see if their ideas can help the said startup. So that's how I do it. But there are certain times where you have to let them be, because it's not time, it's not time yet to ask questions. It's time for them to assemble something, to code something, to develop something. Then I don't mind. Sometimes I just ask, is everything okay? Is everything according to plan? Then I let them be if they don't talk to me, but they give reports, and then it's a good sign, but often a real founder, who wants to grow big, who has certain goals, what's the next step? What's the next pet? Next step? They would actually ask me for some advice, some directions, at least ask my opinion. And then I know that they're growing because the next thing that's in front of them, they can't see it

Botond Seres 10:40
I think it’s interesting that you say that communication is key. Yes, I do believe that applies to most areas of life. Professionally, I have experienced, or I have come to this conclusion over the last, say, five years, that in five hours with constant communication, it is possible to achieve results similar to what someone can achieve alone in, say, 40 hours.

Bernard Chong 11:16
Yes, sometimes like, like minded, if they communicate the energy and the idea is faster, the flow is faster.

Dave Erickson 11:26
I think in a lot of businesses, one of the things that investors, and particularly with investment, don't talk about enough, you know, getting money from an investor solves some types of problems, problems that involve cash, but a lot of businesses, as someone who has started many businesses, a lot of businesses are centered on relationship and who you know, and growing a business, cash only does so much, right? You can buy marketing, you can buy advertising, you can buy other things, but key relationships are the ones that really seem to move a business forward quickly. And in investment, the investor, if the investor only offers just money, then, in a sense, the investor isn't offering that much to a business, because a business may go out to 10 or 20 different people who offer money, and part of that is what relationships do investors also bring with the money. Maybe you can talk a little bit about that. I have an assumption that you have a lot of relationships, and that you bring those relationships to the businesses you're working with as well. But maybe you can talk a little bit about how important relationships are that an investor brings, as well as their money.

Bernard Chong 12:56
It's very important, because when another if you're the founder, or you're doing the set of business, sometimes you really need to talk with different people, even though it's not within your business, but they're friends of your founders, because in talking about what other people are doing, what other people are ideas or style of running business, you may learn something rather than just being head down on your work 24/7, in a month, because that will burn out, and sometimes you have to step back. But with my relationship, when they step back, they step back in a still business environment. They still talk to our organization, which deals with probably FnB, which deals with probably platform business, which deals with construction business, and it refreshes their mind in a way that, oh, this works in construction. Maybe in platform, we can do similar things like this and stuff. So it's a better thing if the investor will bring other relationship or organization friends to introduce to you. And these people are also founders or bosses in their own said industries. So that is always a help. Although resource is always resource, and to complete what you say, Dave, it it's really not just the money, it's also the time that that you have to prolong to make sure that you're doing well, because you may have the money and you you did it well with the money, but if it's not prolonged with time, then you will understand that it's not complete. It's like it's just the beginning. It has to be sustainable. So there's a lot of companies that also grow big because of money, but couldn't sustain growth. And that's what I mean by time, because you grow big only for the MVP, then eventually you have to think of a way, how to self sustain. Then you say that, all right, the business model is complete, then you can now raise money again for expansion.

Botond Seres 15:29
That's quite interesting. I would like to circle back a bit Bernard, to what you said earlier, and that is how some founders ask for investment when they only have an idea, and some others ask when they have an MVP. And I think that there are a third type of founder out there only ask for investment once the business is sustainable.

Bernard Chong 15:57
Even that one is really not in the plan, in the plan that says, This is the MVP, and this is how it's going to be sustainable. If you're really like, you know, you know what you're doing. If you're experienced, you know that the MVP will take another 20-30, more percent of delay, probably time, because things happen, and it's not smooth, And with the projections, also, those are just assumptions, and it depends on the founder or the investor, how they plan it. If the assumptions are real, are real able or in real close to reality, or it's a big dream. So it depends on many things, but it's really good when you know that your investor has a lot of companies that are successful already. And with me, I could say that I have a construction organization that deals with construction. I have an organization that deals with platform, I have an organization that deals with coffee business, restaurant business, Realty business, with retail business, and they're all okay. So at least with me, I can say that I know how to made it work, and I could ask people who run this successful business to talk to you, and when they tell you stuff, you will have an idea that what they're saying is probably correct, because they're, they're all successful people.

Botond Seres 17:34
Yes, I'm really happy to hear that, you know, there are some investors who do sort of a hit and run strategy, just extract as much value as possible in as short time as possible. I do see this type of portfolio management often in the news, mostly, but it's quite a rare sight to see someone who has sustainability in mind when, when investing.

Bernard Chong 18:04
Oh, because most of my companies are built to last. What I mean is are built for cash flow, rather than selling it like pancakes to flip it. So all, most of the companies that I invested, when, when we talk to other organizations, other partners, they kind of see that cash flow business is what they want to.

Dave Erickson 18:30
I think people forget about the value of that in the industry that we're in, development companies and development agencies. You know, I talked to a lot of founders of technically, competitors or other businesses are similar, and they're very focused and have a lot of pressure on, well, we have to get the business to 20 million in size so we can sell it to somebody and, and walk away with all of this money. And, you know, a lot of them never succeed, because there's spending their energy and their money trying to grow beyond what they really are capable of for a number to sell the company. And we have found that, yeah,

Bernard Chong 19:12
Yeah, cuz you can't force growth. Dave, so there are certain things that naturally, this is the time progression. So if you force something, it's not stable. Sorry, to cut you, okay, but I think it's important. No problem. I think it's important.

Dave Erickson 19:28
I agree 100% and my partners with screamingbox are kind of similar. We're not, you know, let's make the business profitable, and let's make a good living off of the company. And, you know, grow in a natural way based on the success we have with the business, versus trying to force it. And I totally understand you may have a business where you get to a point where you're like, Okay, I would like to now grow the business to a larger size. You know, you have two options, you try to grow the business with the, using the profit. You currently generate, which will generate a certain growth rate, or you can go out for investment so that you can invest in other things that may allow you to have a higher growth rate. But that's kind of different than just running your business of I must grow, I must grow. I must grow, and not focusing on quality and servicing your customers.

Bernard Chong 20:22
Yeah, because they've a passionate founder really, that's their life dream already. So money. Remember the saying that money is the result of what you're doing good. So normally, if you're genuinely love what you do, the money is the result. So you don't chase it. You chase the service, how to make customers happy, you chase your company's strength, and you develop your company, you develop your product, you develop how to serve other people, and then the money comes. So that's why those people who thinks chasing the money, they're all failures, which is, I'm certain, because that's not the way. The way really is to how to make customers happy, how to make your employees happy, how to make your company strong, then the money comes. with, with my organization, or with, with what we do, we always make sure that the founder is passionate on what they do, and we grow their passion. We give challenges. If they reach a certain level, we'll say, alright, now this is another big dream. You have to inspire them to be challenged more, and then they take on the challenge at their own pace and time.

Botond Seres 21:44
Pretty important point there, that everyone has their own pace. Some companies go from zero to 100 really quick, while others are multi-generational by nature. And speaking of companies in general, I did see that. And you did also mention coffee as one of the fields. And I do see a mention of Tim Horton here, which unfortunately hasn't made its way to Hungary yet, but I would love to see it. So on that note, I'm wondering what was it like to expand it to the Philippines?

Bernard Chong 22:24
It was exciting because it's a good brand. It's like the Starbucks of Canada, Tim Horton, and when we were given the option to bring it to the Philippines, we were excited. Now, at first, you have to put everything as how Canadians operated, quality and, and stuff. But sometimes change of location, change of culture, also, and change of purchasing power of customer will make you change your, your style, so we have to think to be more efficient. We started with one store. Now I think we have 58 stores, and our target is 100 stores. But it wasn't easy, because we learned that some of the stores, when you expand, could be more efficient if you make our designs before was a standalone store, and at Tim Horton, we make our food fresh every day. But one of the things we did in Manila was we make like an octopus, where the head is the big store, and there would be eight small store, and we, we make it fresh, still, but deliver it to it to be more efficient. But then, like I said, Canada was not like that, but Philippines was like that, because we have to adapt according to terrain situation, purchasing Power of customers and stuff. So those are examples of small tweak changes we did to be sustainable, but you'll figure it out, because, of course, there's a plan, and you're supposed to just follow the plan. But then again, if you're having trouble, you will discuss it, and then you will try until we figure out that that's, that was the way. And then once we figure that out, then it's good. We're, we're, we're stable, sustainable. Then you can recreate it to expand.

Dave Erickson 24:34
There's kind of a second phase of investment and investing, you find a company, you find founders that you are aligned with, and you choose to invest. And these founders, they're happy, Hey, we got money. It's not Hey, we got money, let's party. It's Hey, we got money, now we have real work to do. I assume that the business planning is really a critical phase. When you're thinking about making an investment, you know, they have a pitch deck that talks about the product, the market, the customers, but usually business plans are much more complicated than a PowerPoint presentation. Do you have kind of advice or what, maybe suggestions about what you look for when a potential company comes to you, and what are you looking for in their business plans and how they plan to use the money?

Bernard Chong 25:38
Well, I wish I could answer you briefly, but the answer there is really it's about the person still, and it's about your journey with the person. And you have to season your journey with the so-called founder, new friend or business associate through time. So it's not for the faint of heart, it's someone who, like you got excess money to invest. As an investor, you're willing to put out that money and plant at least three years, five years, seven years that you know you're not going to see, but you're going to learn, and you're going to have a good journey. So that's one. And we talk about it like it's easy, oh, it's about the person. Oh, it's five years, seven years, or three years, but day to day, wait for that three years to occur, and journey day to day with that person is, is not easy. That's but that's an adventure too, and you will learn from it. So you have to really check who the person you're doing the business with or the journey with, because if you're doing a business with certain individual and giving time with a certain individual, you're not giving time to a certain individual, like if you're doing, if I'm talking to you, Dave, I'm not talking to someone else. So you got to make sure that the journey, the conversation, the learnings are really, really important and good, and you have to have patience with it. Now business plan, normally, they change too. There's just like the overview, you know. But in actual application, there are changes and everything, and it comes with the territory that planning in paper and real life application is two different things. But again, that's why an investor and the founder must have a good relationship, must be solid, must be talking and must be with the same idea on how to go about things, because some say, let's go with culture, and let's let growth suffer because culture is needed. And some say, let's put the culture behind us first, and let's grow first, because we need to grow and then let's fix the culture; something like a balancing act between them. Bottom line is the founders responsibility, how to go about the business, but it's the investors also responsibility to be patient and to be teaching. So I believe that all startup investors are like teachers, in a way, because it's really hard to be a startup investor without patience.

Dave Erickson 28:37
Yeah, I remember going through an accelerator for my solar business that we did, and part of that accelerator was, you know, mapping out business plans and presenting to potential investors, but having, you know, your spreadsheets of, well, here's what you think the business will do. And I, you know, one of the things I brought up about that is, a lot of times, you know, if you're in a startup prototype phase, you can make plans that show that this business is going to be a $100 million business in five years, but you're just guessing, right? Because you know, as you said, once things hit the market, that's when you actually encounter reality. And making a spreadsheet, there's not a lot of reality there. Just you saying, Well, if it costs this much, and we need this much, and these are the things we need to do, and it's going to take this much money. Yes, it's an estimate, but it's not very accurate. On the other hand, it's hard for investors to say, what are you going to do with my money, unless you have some kind of business plan? Is that correct?

Bernard Chong 29:44
Correct, but it's also the maturity, also, and the exposure of how the reality works of the investor and the founder. Because I can say that people who have experience can really say that this business Plan is solid, and even the reality will fit to it if their experience with it. But there's also where you're a novice, you are a newbie to this industry, and your business plan has so many things that are missing that you don't know. So again, it really depends on who is your founder, if they're experienced person, or if they're seasoned with the industry, and who's also the investor, also, if they're also seasoned with the industry. So those things gotta be in account.

Dave Erickson 30:35
Does this kind of play in a little bit with the conversation about once you get funding, how do you make that money actually succeed in work? Kind of how do you plan out your runway? And that type of situation?

Bernard Chong 30:51
For me, the runway at least should be minimum of one year, 10 months, one year. And it could, it should be as complete as everything, lawyers, office, engineers, minimal viable product and you should have at least not thinking of how you will pay the, the employee, or how., how you will feed them so they can concentrate on their work. If you're on a month to month basis. It's really hard for the engineers or for the team to focus and at the back of their head, they're thinking about their families too. So might as well just pause it and make sure you have enough funding and then call everyone to say, alright, we got this, we got this for one year, we can now focus. Let's do this. It'd be that's the right way to start a company with a proper runway of 10 months or one year.

Dave Erickson 31:55
When you're looking at investing in a company and they're talking about runway and business plan, you know, they're missing a lot of relationships, but also assets, even simple, simple things like cost effective bookkeeper, or, you know, a marketing person or, you know, engineers. How are you able to in not just invest in the money, but how are you able to help them, these businesses with that?

Bernard Chong 32:27
Well, bookkeeper sometimes I recommend bookkeepers. I have bookkeepers. Sometimes I recommend my business bookkeepers, but often you have to let them grow their own team. So if really needed, and if really small, then sometimes you just help. But it's not advisable for you to extend different resource and assign to them. But it's better to let them grow their own roots, grow their own feet, because when their business grows, they has to have a dedicated technician. They should have dedicated bookkeeper. So you, you let them, if they need them, it's really, really startup, but you have to tell them that in the long run, they really have to build them themselves too, so they can really move on how they want to move. That's very important, because that's the right way. Maybe it's the harder way, but the right way still,

Botond Seres 33:37
I didn't see here that you're a bit of a philanthropist. Bernard and philanthropy is something that's close and dear to my heart. So I'm hoping you can tell us a bit more.

Bernard Chong 33:48
There's philanthropy that's really, really, you know, organizations that are big. My way of philanthropy is when I can with the legwork or some experiences that I've, I've, I've made, I shared them, or with some excess money that I have, and if they're just they need it, for hospital, for food, for education, sometimes I help too, but only in my own way, and then what I can but there are bigger philanthropies that are really donating big amount of money and I'm not there yet, but I do help on my own way, on, on, on small batches at times, and this very often, but really case to case basis.

Dave Erickson 34:41
One of the things I've been seeing a lot more of recently, particularly with younger companies, or companies where the founders are out of just out of college or even high school, a lot of them are starting or trying to build businesses that are, I wouldn't call them nonprofit, but the goal the business is to have a positive effect on society and to help people. So they're trying to build a business that, yes, it sells a product or a service, but they're also trying to sell a product or a service that helps people, and, you know, take some of the profit and the money that the company makes and help people through supporting organizations or supporting charity outreach. How do you feel about investing in those type of companies? Are those the type of companies that are worth investing in, or are they more something you try to stay away from?

Bernard Chong 35:44
No, giving value to the market and helping people is always a good way to support them. It's always nice to support people who help. And this is because that's the meaning of life. The meaning of life is, if you can make one soul suffer less, then you did a good job already. And, and I think all people should strive to be able to be strong and to be helpful to other people. If, if they do it, then I think they, they run a successful life already. So these things, if we can we do, it's just that there are things that you help just for the day, and then the next day they'll still be in trouble, it's not sustainable, so maybe it's just a waste of energy too. I think we should think of something that will really teach them how to fish, rather than giving them fishes. So make them part of the workforce. Make them part of the world economy system, system wise, that they do something that can be sustained rather than just giving them something, food and then after that, they still waste their time because they didn't study, they didn't learn anything. So if you if we could find organizations that really help in a sustainable way, by teaching, by doing legwork, or by, by mentoring them, then we do those, we do those.

Botond Seres 37:22
Any specific charities that you'd like to mention here?

Bernard Chong 37:28
I'm starting an Education Foundation. Brenseed foundation is for education. I'm hoping to send kids to school in our own way. It's just starting. Hopefully in the few months, I'll have more, you know, update on how to go about it.

Dave Erickson 37:54
You mentioned education, but you also mentioned, you know, when you're looking at investor or investing in a company, the founders, and who the founders are seem to be a very important aspect to you, and the type of relationship you have with them. And part of that, I think, the success of a founder, potential success of a founder, is their education, right? What, what they learned, not just in school, but what they learned in trying to build things or just working in a job. How do you kind of investigate, or how do, what do you ask potential founders about their education, about their background, that that is helpful for you as an investor?

Bernard Chong 38:44
Okay, actually, you look at two, two things or two ways. If he's a young founder or an seasoned founder, a seasoned founder means he have established something, he, he did something in the industry. He was successful. He was part of an organization in a position C level, and then eventually they want to start their own so that's different. If those in those time, in those cases, I would check what they did, I would check who they know. I would sometimes ask for a meeting of people who they know, and ask around what they did. And then I will see I always give chance to everyone, but I guess kind of know if I'm going to put more resource to them, because they're in a level of just they're in a level where they don't need to waste resource because they know what they're doing. And there's also another thing where they're just learning, they're just, they haven't done anything yet, but they want to start their own company, because there is such thing too, right? But these things, if this person, are just learning and just starting without any experience, I would test them by testing their patient, asking directly and intentionally dumb questions to see how they react, to see their patients, to see if they're respectful, you know, because it would be a hard journey. I would say I would really give them hard time, and this to test if they're up to it, because heading a company, I know it's really hard, and you really have to be stubbornly dedicated, and you really have to know how to talk to people so, so different, different styles or different requests. So if a founder is seasoned, this is what I do. If the founder is a newbie and, and young, that is what I do.

Botond Seres 40:59
And what if it's a combination of the two, if the founder themselves are seasoned, but they would like to expand to a different array of business that they are completely new and fresh to?

Bernard Chong 41:15
Well, normally, it's the same principle. So if, if they're old enough, if they're mature, you, you kind of know when you talk to them. Like if they talk slow, if they're forcefully wanting hard headed and want to do what to get what they want, stuff like that. But again, on a different industry, the principles are the same. So if you're starting a restaurant business or a shoe factory business or a sports team, it seems different, but the same is, you still have a customer, you still have a product, you still have a business finance that would support it, you know. So it's similar, even though it's different industry, the principles are the same.

Botond Seres 42:19
Feels like there is a very similar conversation to be had with the customers or audience at large. A very similar conversation to what a founder would have with an investor to constantly iterate and improve upon the product,

Bernard Chong 42:40
Yes, step by step. So you don't see the five if you're at the two, but you see the three, and then when you get to the three, you see the four, then the five. So just do what you see in front of you.

Dave Erickson 42:53
It's good to kind of have a basic plan of direction, but definitely, I'm sure, Bernard, you've had the same experience I've had. You know, you're you're going through business, and you just encounter things that you weren't expecting or couldn't foresee, and then you have to try to figure a way around it, find a solution, and that solution may alter the direction that you originally were thinking for the business, and maybe either offering a path that has more growth or offering a path that you know for failure you never know. Right?

Bernard Chong 43:29
Yes, that's happened, especially if you season with time, because it's easy to guess one day, it's easy to guess one week, one month. But if you're continue doing your business, and you're guessing what six months will happen, what one year will happen, that's, that's not the case. The reality is, you really have to know when to change your plan to if it doesn't fit anymore.

Dave Erickson 43:54
I get people who come to me and say, Hey, I'm thinking of starting a business. Would you like to join, or would you like to be involved in and usually, for me, the first questions I ask them are, well, tell me about how you failed, right? Because, you know, I've had a bunch of different businesses. Some have lasted, you know, 18 years. Some have lasted 6 months, right? And the ones I actually remember or feel the strongest about are the ones that failed. Because failure is not easy, but if you are open in you know, open minded and understanding, you know failure, in a way, has a success. And the success is that you learn something, that you found something out and you failed for a reason. You failed because you didn't know something, you didn't learn something, you didn't understand something. But if you can understand afterwards why you failed, then usually the next time you do something, you're not going to do it that way, right? You will learn. Something, yes, in your life, I'm sure that you have had great successes, but you've also had some failures. What are some of the things that you've learned from your failures that you think are important to give advice on to others?

Bernard Chong 45:16
So that's why I have this. I know the principles now, because when I was starting, there are some principle I didn't took to heart and I let it go. And eventually it does. I saw I was regretful of the outcome, so some startup I did, and the person was really good, and we're not aligned in communicating the progress, because I trust the person. And then eventually the person just told me, you put the money, stay away from how you run the business. And then from that moment with me, we fell apart, because I'm not learning anything. And it's not just the money. If it's just the money, just buy bitcoin and sit it out, then it would go, go up in through time. But so, yeah, so and I, I took it to heart, and, and from, from that moment on, all the businesses that I have, I make sure that I have constantly checking them in two weeks or in one month, I ask them what's happening in a weekly basis or on a monthly basis. Sometimes report is automatic, but we get a call. We talk every month or every week, dedicated for the business. So that's one second, also empowering too much the founder will make them overconfident and not listen to you. You know the thing that they got big head, but when they're starting, they got, they're like, really needy. But if you put resource and then suddenly we don't need you anymore, because we're we know it, but actually that's the investor's fault. If they give too much, it's like you're destroying how they should be always thinking, always be innovative, always be in their toes, how to move properly, rather than just to expand resources. So I learned to be in constant communication. I learned not to give too much. There's nothing wrong also giving too little, if they fail, they fail, but if not, they also think of way how to, how to get other sources, because what you given is not enough. So with me as a startup, sometimes I rather give not enough, but they make way because they really want it. They're passionate about it, rather than giving too much. I rather have them figure out other sources, how they go by, how they live, rather than me spoiling them. So those, those are the lessons, and it's, it's like, when I recall these lessons, it's like, it's easy to talk to now, but I understand those moments, was hurt, man, you're not talking to me. Man, you after all this, you're not reporting anymore, you know, or after I give it this, you think you don't need me. Those feelings during that time, there's all they're all hurt, hurtful,

Dave Erickson 48:40
Well, as uncomfortable as it is, some of the best things that I have learned have been when the business was really in trouble and you had no money. You become very inventive, and you become very good at finding a way to make the business work on almost no money. And that, those are really valuable lessons, not just running a business, but maybe investing in a business. Because now, when I do a business, I have a lot of that experience. I know how to run a business with almost no overhead, right, which, strategically, is really important. You know when, when you're coming to grow a business and try to build the business and young founders, you know, they, they don't have those lessons at that point, but hopefully they gain them pretty quickly. What type of technologies or businesses seem interesting to you right now? What are, what are things that are, are things that you are kind of interested in?

Bernard Chong 49:40
Well, like I said, I am interested in the person, but on your particular question, if I have a choice, I would rather do a platform businesses. Platform businesses means app where you can cater to the user, to the using internet, because I feel like the volume of the user and you can help them, or you can have an influence on their decisions and stuff, excites me more than a stand up store that can caters to a certain number of customers only, which is also not bad, as long as that's your business model. But the thing that excites me, really, is platform businesses, and because these things has tremendous potential, and you could be really creative on who you work with, with platform businesses.

Botond Seres 50:45
So I would like to ask for a bit of clarification there on platform businesses. When you say platform business, do you mean a platform like how Facebook and YouTube are platforms?
Bernard Chong 50:58
Yes. So they have a formula, yes, yes. So platform business, like YouTube, like social media platforms, or like online shopping platforms, or maybe even like a platform where your community base, where you have a certain community, those things.
Botond Seres 51:17
When are you looking to the future? In your opinion, what do you see as the future of investing?

Bernard Chong 51:24
Well, I see niches for sure. There would be niches like because people's age are becoming longer, lifespans were becoming healthier, and, and kids now also have their own thing that they can't understand the older stuff, and they want to be superstars too. So there would be niches instead of a one, one thing that has everything, they would be like, Okay, this is the, the Facebook user. These are the Snapchat user. These are the X, formerly Twitter user, and these are the Instagram user. And then there would be certain platform where this uses viva. This is use WhatsApp, this use telegram. There will be niches. Same goes with Shopify, Lazada and other stuff. So I see that there will be niches and investing if you looking for sustainability should be easier now, if you're really putting your heart into work and making people happy, if you're making your customer happy, it's very easy to be sustainable. That's my point of view.

Botond Seres 52:43
Bernard, thank you so much for giving us a better understanding of investors and how they look at businesses.

Dave Erickson 52:51
Well, dear listeners, we are at the end of the episode today, but before you go, we want you to think about this important question.

Botond Seres 52:59
How are you going to arrange your business to better attract investment?

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Dave Erickson 53:16
Thank you very much for taking this journey with us. Join us for our next exciting exploration of technology and business in the first week of every month. Please help us by subscribing, liking and following us on whichever platform you're listening to or watching us on. We hope you enjoyed this podcast, and please let us know any subjects or topics you would like us to discuss in our next podcast by leaving a message for us in the comment sections or sending us a Twitter DM till next month, please stay happy and healthy.