ScreamingBox Technology & Business Rundown

SPEAKERS
Joshua Darrington, Dave Erickson, Botond Seres

Dave Erickson 00:32
Welcome to the ScreamingBox technology and business rundown podcast. In this month's podcast I, Dave Erickson and my co hosts, both on set ash are going to venture into the mysterious world of Chat GPT. With our guest, Joshua Darrington. Joshua is a seasoned professional with a background in e-commerce and marketing, he transitioned into the field of Chat GPT education, and is quickly becoming a top teacher of Chat GTP on Udemy. With a passion for technology and teaching, Joshua is dedicated to helping others understand and utilize the power of Chat GPT in their own businesses and projects. Today, we're looking to find out exactly what Chat GPT is, and how it can be applied to various business and technology solutions. So Joshua, is there anything you'd like to add to this sensationalized info?

Joshua Darrington 01:27
No, that was it, it was spot on. I'm ready to get into it and I like to say this is a very exciting field, things are happening really fast. And you know, there's new things coming out every day. So I'm excited to get into it.

Botond Seres 01:39
So what, what is Chat GPT from a technical standpoint Joshua?

Joshua Darrington 01:44
And you know, to make it simple, and I've had people ask me, you know, what do you, you know, what does it do? What does it you know, what is it for, and I just simply explain to them, it's the smartest person on the planet, in your pocket. And as far as the technical aspect, what it is, is basically, what they did was they took millions and millions of data sheets of conversations that humans have had back and forth, and they use the computer to basically try to understand what's going on in conversation and taking it and put it into chatbots, to where you can communicate in your natural language. Without going into the actual heart wiring of it, that's the best explanation I can give you.

Dave Erickson 02:27
People seem to have a lot of different definitions of Chat GPT. I think you kind of summed it up in a good way without getting into a lot of the technical details. You're a business guy. And somebody says to you, you should use Chat GPT. And the business guy has no clue what it is. How it is, he says, Well, how do I use it? How do I access it? Right. So that might be kind of the first question there. How would somebody just start using Chat GPT?

Joshua Darrington 03:01
That’s a great question. So I've, I've been introducing a lot of business owners, I'm having a few in my circle, and I've just been, you know, introducing them to you know, this, I'm like, Hey, this is the greatest thing, since the internet, and it's gonna be extremely huge; you gotta get onto it now. So someone who perhaps has had some, a little bit of apprehension to it, but what I've found is, you know, it depends specifically on your business, right. So typically, what I and few of my friends have used it for is a lot of, we've sent a lot of emails, copy outreach, and things of that nature. But as far as their specific business owner, I have a buddy of mine who has a trucking business. And what he had to do was, he had to send out contracts to a, to get quotes for someone to do service for him. And I was to him, I'm like, Man, you can ask me anything. And it will do it for you. So when he did just to, you know, stay up to date on technology, he asked me to write him a contract for a citing, truck citing manufacturer or something like that. And it wrote him the entire contract. And it also wrote him interview questions, so he can hire the right person. So again, the opportunity, and I'll say this specifically, for me, so I spend about 10 hours a day on Chat GPT and I use it a little bit different, you know, than the average user would just because it, to me, it's kind of like, ingrained into my life. And, you know, I have sometimes people ask me, Well, you know, what are the uses are so ingrained into me, and I really can't see myself living without it. But you know, when people ask me, What does it do? You know, you can do everything. So, yeah, that's the kind of situation I find myself in.

Botond Seres 04:49
So I was wondering, Joshua, so you mentioned DALL·E before right? And it is something that I did try to use and the issue I constantly ran into, uh what datasets do we use? So I was wondering, what kind of dataset did you end up using for Chat GPT? Like, we're just talking numbers? Is it terabytes? Petabytes?

Joshua Darrington 05:16
That's actually a great question. So one thing I realized is, um, Chat GPT is a combination of datasets, right? And that's why, you know, sometimes you will ask the question, and then you answer the question, like, two minutes later, and it gives you different answers. Because there is searching going on, I believe it's, I don't know the exact number. But um, and I'm not gonna try and guess but it's trying to, at least five different main data sets. And what they do is they kind of like, intertwine, and depending on the question you ask, it'll pull out these data sets, but as far as terabytes, and megabytes, I haven't ran it on my computer to that aspect yet. But I actually looked over the, the actual inner workings of Chat GPT, just to make myself more knowledgeable. And, you know, I'm still studying, so I'll put it like that.

Botond Seres 06:11
So these five different data sets, are they basically all text based off conversations people they’ve had?

Joshua Darrington 06:17
So since the beginning of Chat GPT, what they did was, I think it's about 1.5 billion, they call them data points, and they're pretty much like I say, text, conversations, it's all intertwined. And that leads me to a next point, with chat GPT, for I'm sure you all have heard about it GP 4, Chat GPT 4 is going to be 100 times stronger than Chat GPT 3.5, which is what we have now. So as far as, you know, data sets, you know, it's going to get a lot more complex and, you know, it's honestly going to be, get to the point where it's going to be, it's not going to matter. And because with, like I said, with Chat GPT 4, it's going to be 100 times stronger. I think about, don't quote me on this, but I think 100 billion data points and data sets, but my point of saying that is Chat GPT 4 is going to be 100 times stronger and as far as like, what exact data set it’s trained on is not gonna really matter, in the near future.

Botond Seres 07:28
That's, that's ambitious. That's very ambitious. Well, well, then I’m wondering, still stuck on this sorry, but yeah, all right. So this is gonna be completely hypothetical. So let's say I have a customer support company, right, with millions of people employed, they are all chatting all day, with different companies, different questions. How easy would it be to just integrate that into the system and just be like, Okay, I want a customized solution for my company, and is it a plug and play or is there like a very significant onboarding phase?

Joshua Darrington 08:06
Would it be a plug and play solution? Not necessarily, but close to it. Like, say, Chat GPT, and you're starting to see a lot of other AI models built on top of the GPT 3 platform, and they all do, you know, slightly different things, but it's still in the same realm. But if you were to, you know, try to integrate, basically Chat GPT into your customer service realm, it wouldn't be that difficult, surprisingly enough. Like I say, there's some things we could do and I'd say, this is from experience, I was able to tell, check, well, as we all know, Chat GPT is trained based on 2021 data, so it doesn't, it doesn't go past 21. But if Chat GPT knows enough about your organization and what you're trying to do, you will be able to train it fairly simple. I feel like that.

Dave Erickson 09:05
So if you were to incorporate Chat GPT, say into your website, as a customer service chat bot, you could train it to understand what your business is, who are the people in your business, where to route communication and how to respond, is that correct?

Joshua Darrington 09:22
Fairly simple, fairly simple.

Dave Erickson 09:26
So that mechanism for embedding Chat GPT into a website or even a mobile app, is that pretty easy or known? Or what does that consist of?

Joshua Darrington 09:39
It is fairly simple. What if you were to do that, what you have to do is just a few things. So number one, Chat GPT, you have to bring on the API on to your own service, which just came out. So that's number one. Once you do that, you can train it on, you can say okay, this is my company. My company is X company, we do X, we sell X, our goal is to do X and with the natural language processing, uh Chat GPT is already able to understand, Okay, this the company, this is what they do. These are type of questions customers may ask. This is what they want, this is how we should respond to certain questions. And from there, aside from API calls, it wouldn't be too much of a hassle, to say the least.

Botond Seres 10:30
So I've seen basically all of my friends being amazed and blown away by the capabilities of Chat GPT. And I was wondering, like, how sensitive is it to spelling errors or even grammatical errors?

Joshua Darrington 10:44
Grammatical errors, very. I want to say 99%, 99.9%, Zero, yeah, no grammatical errors. As far as accuracy errors, I think, and this is, this is what's going to happen when Chat GPT 4 comes out. Um, it'll be connected, I believe, it'll be connected to the internet, don't quote me. The accuracy errors will go away, drastically, drastically, too. There's also a little side note, there's a website named u.com that is connected with Chat GPT almost like what Microsoft and Bing are trying to do, and it's able to use the internet. So as far as like, say, as time goes on, I think like, and we have to remember, this is the beta version, it’s the first version and it's already this amazing. So imagine two years from now. You know, that's what, that's where it's gonna get a little scary. But, um, as far as like, grammatical errors, zero, technical errors, you know, just, is getting there, you know, and it comes to my point, how I mentioned earlier about the five data sets, some are better than others. So you may ask it a question and you know, it may give you this one answer and that's not really the right answer, but if you ask it again, the other data set will become more prevalent, and give you the right answer. So overall, it's fairly, it's fairly accurate, but you still, especially as a coder and from a technical aspect, I will still double check my work.

Botond Seres 12:12
So if I'm asking a question to Chat GPT, which makes no sense at all, full of grammatical errors, how sensitive is it to that?

Joshua Darrington 12:20
It's not sensitive at all. And so test it out. What I would do sometime is just type in, you know, mistakes and, you know, misspell words and etc. And it will fairly, fairly accurately predict exactly what I'm trying to say. Funny enough, I was looking at something the other day where this guy, he, um, he wrote in the chat GPT, like a baby would like, you know, with, you know, just like a four year old. with with a, horrendous mistakes and things like that. And, yeah, Chat GPT dissected it, you know, understood exactly what he was trying to say. And it also said, he also would say, it talked to me back like a baby. And it understood that. And, um, you know, so that's what I thought was really, that's what kind of like, blew my mind about the, the real capabilities of it, like, you know, it understands the, you know, the world, you say, the jokes of human communication.

Botond Seres 13:18
So it understands, if I say explain it to me, like, I'm five?

Joshua Darrington 13:21
That's one of my best, my best uses. So what I do is, like I say, there's many complex subjects out there, like nuclear fission and black hole theory, etc, etc. And what I do is, you know, just to accelerate my learning, that's, that's why it's so ingrained with me now, I say, Okay, well explain this to me like I’m five or explain what happened in the War of 1812, or what happened in the French Revolution, war, etc, and just ask it to break it down simply. And I can ask a question about that. And I ask it to go deeper in depth about that. So that's one of the best uses of it, you know, and you want to just test out, you know, the capabilities of your person out there that wants to do that, ask it to explain the hardest subject you could think of like your five. And you know, it'll give you a fairly digestible answer.

Botond Seres 14:10
So I was wondering, like, these five data sets, how do they rise to the surface? How does Chat GPT decide which one to use? At which moment?

Joshua Darrington 14:22
That's a great question. I just, just from my experience, I believe is how you phrase the question and I think as I said, as time goes on, they will become, you know, more intertwined. So you won't be able to tell, but I just noticed, like, you know, when I ask it a question and ask it again, you know, it'll give me you know, a reworked version of that same answer, but as far as how does it how do they decide which to put in top priority? I will say just how you phrase your question. I think some, some datasets, and it's just hypothetically or, you know, theory? I think some datasets do better with, say, a simple questions and some do better with a more detailed questions with a lot of nuance. So let's say you were trying to write an email, and you could say, write me an email for a store; I'm having a 50% off sale, write just a very simple email. And, you know, some dataset will do better and just write you a quick email, verses when you say, write me an email for a flower store; we're selling teal flowers, and we want to do a 50% off sale to our returning customers for this x, x, y reason, right? And some datasets do better at that. So as far as how detailed, that's just a theory of, I think it just depends on you know, what question you're asking how simple versus complex it is.

Botond Seres 15:48
How much power do we need to train Chat GPT? Is it like a GPU or the room of GPUs or more?

Joshua Darrington 15:58
Hey, Yeah. I'm gonna say this, but I don't, like, I don't know how accurate it is. But I think I'm just, don't believe everything you read on Twitter, but I'm just gonna quote you. I think, Chat GBT was like, 100 or something gigabytes. So that's a planogram. I just bought a planogram with 425 gigabytes. So it's, I don't know how accurate that is, but I don't think it's, you know, very expensive. Now, when Chat GPT 4 comes out, well, I say Chat GPT 4, really it’s GPT 4, you know, that may be a lot more data, but yeah, exactly. But for now, it's not to my knowledge, it’s not that much.

Botond Seres 16:46
So it's not like, well, if Google's AI is, which takes like a whole day.

Joshua Darrington 16:50
And that's what’s so amazing about it And I think, because if you think about it, it was like to say, one of Google's systems, not to poop on Google. I like Google. I love you Google. Are you watching this? Um, you know, I think that's why they haven't released it to the public, is because they, they know, you know, if we had a million people to use this, our, the place will be on fire pretty much, you know, so, um, you know, I think that's what, you know, what kind of separates Chat GPT and allows them to, you know, distribute it to the public in a manner you know, because it's so compact, and, you know, useful.

Dave Erickson 17:31
Yeah, let's, let's use your business idea of an e-commerce site selling T-shirts. Okay. You know, I have an e-commerce site, doing T-shirts. How can I use Chat GPT?

Joshua Darrington 17:45
So okay, so if I and I had an e-commerce speaking, it is, um, put this on a record. I was, when DALL·E 2 first came out, I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. So what I did is I created an e-commerce Store, I was actually the first one in the world for the record, to make a DALL·E 2 AI generated clothing store. Right. And so what I did was, it was a lot of people on Reddit posting their, you know, their daily art. And what I'll do, I'll reach out to them and say, Hey, I have a website where you can go print it out and I got a couple of sales from that. But what I just realized, you know, maybe it's not the most scalable, and I was still in the hunt, still in the hunt and then that's when Chat GPT came out. But if I had an e-commerce store and I wanted to incorporate Chat GPT, one of the first ways I would do it is for my one branch story. Um, you know, a lot of time, a lot of times if you're, you know, when you're, when you're an e-commerce store, specifically, you know, there's a lot of, it's a science to it, right? And there's a lot of moving parts that you have to connect perfectly so that you can, you know, generate sales right? So, number one, I will use it for my brand story and what I mean by brand story is, let's say okay, it was, you started the store, it was you by yourself, you wanted to create a sustainable way to make T-shirts, using organic fabrics, and etc. So what I would do, I would go to Chat GPT and enter in my name is Joshua, I started a store back in 2018. I wanted to create a sustainable way to create t-shirt fabrics, we use the best quality materials, we recycled, etc, etc. Chat GPT, create me a brand story and what most people will do is just take what I said originally and put it on the store, you know. I just want to print my name Joshua, 2018 brand, e-commerce etc. But Chat GPT will construct it in a way, to where, is very flowing. And you know, it just makes beautiful sense, right? So that's number one. That's number one. Number two, email. Right? I do a lot of e-mails. And I know and there's a lot of people out there who agree is, e-mails take a lot of brain brain power, right and throughout the day, you know, you lose brain power. But what Chat GPT does is, it allows you to focus your brain power and energy on other things that matter in your business. So what I would do is use it for number two, e-mails and just have it to write, let's see their daily email, a sales email, and there's people who pay 1000s and 1000s of dollars a month, just to have people write emails for them, because email is like, you know, your focus on these ads and everything like that. Email is like a, it's another realm coming from an e-commerce store owner in my experience, anyway, number two emails. Number three, brand copy and product descriptions, right. Um, you know, product descriptions are is a part of the science of e-commerce. But as, like I said, time goes on, you know, if you're writing them in the middle of the day, you're not going to be as effective and your brain energy is not going to be able to produce exactly how you want to do. So what I would do is to change fatigue, this is my product, it's made of these materials, XYZ, and also, include the goal, right, so my goal is to convert, or is my goal is to get sales? And my my ideal customer profile is a person of XYZ, they're this age, they do this, you know, depending on what you're selling, of course, and when you enter it in that way, Chat GPT constructs a beautiful product description, with your goal in mind, and allows you to generate sales. I've used it on a few stores myself, and it just works. So I think if you're, especially if you're e-commerce owner, this is something you can use every day. It's better than Google and instead of paying someone 1000s and 1000s of dollars per month to do emails for you, or to do store optimization, you know, you can think of Chat GPT as a free employee. It's free. Right now they come out with a premium version, but it's free right now. And you know, you can 10x your business. So that's how we use an e-commerce Store.

Dave Erickson 22:07
So if you have Chat GPT you may have several projects, quote projects that you would need Chat GPT to work on. Does Chat GPT have a way where you can, like, literally set up a project in Chat GPT and say, okay, Chat GPT I need emails for these things, or I need brand copy. And so you have a Chat GPT setup for brand copy, you have a Chat GPT setup for email, does it work that way? Or how does it work in that sense for managing different workflows?

Joshua Darrington 22:47
What I've noticed lately is there's a lot of businesses that are branching out using a GPT 3, GPT 3 platform and doing specific things like copy AIs for like, email and copy pretty much. And there's some, you know, AI related businesses that do branding and things of that nature. But as far as to answer your question, you can most definitely do that in Chat GPT. It will save your conversations, they came out with a new feature, way to save your conversation. So if you say create me, you know, emails for this XYZ business. First question I would ask, what type of emails do I need for this type of business? Okay, it will give you 123456. Okay, well, number 2, write me some email headings for that, for that topic. You don't want to be robotic. Okay, write me the first paragraph of that email for one, one and two, and spit it out. So, um, as far as like, to answer your question, as far as like, sep, projects will start to project most definitely entered actually. It's not the best now for the coders out there. So you're still safe, but um, there’s actually GPT 3.5, which is Chat GPT, does a fairly decent job with coding. And you know, creating your project from scratch. There's actually a website, I think it's called freepixelart.com. If you're out there. And what someone else did was they asked Chat DBT to make them a website to where, they can host their pixel art. And just by asking the right question, it coded the entire website from scratch and the website looks halfway decent. So if you go on there, you'll be able to vote there, it'd be pixel art, and it just looks like a 90s website. But this person has zero coding experience, you know, and I think that's absolutely amazing for to be able to code them websites. So yeah, just to answer the question you can do, it can start to, a brand and projects from scratch. So.

Dave Erickson 24:47
I've used some AI platforms, Jasper, and Rytr. They're basically AR writing platforms and a little bit of Chat GPT. I've found that in four short pieces of writing, like emails, and even some social media posts, they seem to basically generate content that's reasonable. Meaning you can take that content, it doesn't need a lot of editing, just a little bit of editing, and it's good. If you wanted them to write a piece of content that is, you know, a chapter in a book, right? It's not very accurate in the sense that you have to do a lot of editing. And it seems like there's a, there's kind of a limit, there's a certain there's a sweet spot where Chat GPT produces content, written content, that doesn't need a lot of editing. And it's usable, you know, there's this line where Chat GPT is, if you put in more content, or if it has to write more content, as it writes more content, it seems to not be as accurate in the sense that you have to do more editing. And there just comes a point where, okay, if I had to write a blog post for 2000 words, I would have to spend an hour to edit it. Whereas if I had to write a blog post of 2000 words, it would take me an hour and 15 minutes. So maybe it's better if I just write it myself. But if I had to write a short, you know, paragraph on Chat GPT, it could write a paragraph and I would look at it and I'd only need a minute or five minutes to edit it and that seems like a great use of time that chat GPT, because it would take me a half hour if I had to write that myself. Right. So there's kind of this limit. I don't know if it works in other aspects. Have you seen that limit as well? Because my experience was, it’s just a very small sample of a few. But, and do you think that's improving?

Joshua Darrington 27:06
That's a, that's a great point. And you're actually correct, but one thing I did notice, and this is what he's kind of you're starting to hear a little bit more about this, is prompt engineering. Okay. Right? And I actually think, you know, as time goes on, prompt engineering is gonna be a big business. I'll tell you why.

Dave Erickson
So well, what is prompt engineering?

Joshua Darrington
Simply put, the type of questions you ask, set up, right? So I touched on this a little bit earlier. The difference is basically asking Chat GPT to write your email for this, versus asking Chat GPT to write your email for this. But you also include your goal, your ideal customer profile, your, you know, some of the types of things you want to consider. What type of tone do you want to have, you want to be a professional? Do you want to be witty? Do you want to be, you know, serious, comical, etc. But yet, simply put, I think, as time goes on, you know, that's what's going to separate the, the good crops, and the good outcomes from the great outcomes, or, you know, because Chat GPT is basically good, it's serviceable, but um, you know, in order to get what you actually want, it's going to come now to producing the best crops and you know, asking the right question, you know, with your desired goal in mind, and that's one thing I've noticed. I can say, I use it all day, pretty much. And, um, you know, and I notice, sometimes I'll get a little bit lazy, and just, you know, Write me an email for this, you know, and, you know, it doesn't produce the best results. But I had to realize, like, you know, in order to get the best outcomes, I had to put in the best prompt. So, yeah, as time goes on, I think it will get better, you know, by taking a simple prompt, and, you know, expanding upon it, and kind of reading our minds in a sense, but, you know, and I think that's what Chat GPT is for specifically, but for now, you know, in order to produce a really great or have Chat GPT to produce, and I'm kind of integrating a really great answer, you're gonna have to input a really great prompt.

Dave Erickson 29:12
Like many things in technology, there's what I would call an art. Right? And so for Chat GPT there is this art that comes with experience and understanding. So a person who's just trying to get into Chat GPT, they may find that it doesn't produce that greater result because they themselves haven't done enough, I guess A/B testing to figure out what generates it. On the other hand, someone who's experienced kind of already knows what to do, and so it's much more efficient. Well, I guess that's where training courses like the one that you have on Udemy can come in handy. I assume you have a section on the prompt engineering and I'm sure that that gets into it. Okay, so that kind of puts it into perspective. I want to go back a little bit to what you were saying more about application. It seems like for a lot of small and medium sized businesses, probably one of the most useful aspects or most useful things that you could do with Chat GPT, on the front end, is to refine some of your marketing content, right? And this could be rewriting content on your website, it could be rewriting some blog posts. And again, it may not give you a perfect copy, but it'll give you a copy that saves you time. That may be one way to do it. It, it seems like answering emails or answering questions from potential customers is another aspect, right? I assume that you could probably set up some customer personas, and then put together some questions that you would normally get from some of these customers about your business, and then Chat GPT would then produce answers. And then you could kind of just use those answers as those questions come in. It…

Joshua Darrington 31:22
I will say, you can ask Chat GPT to create you some. So let's say you have a product, right? You can actually look at what type of people will be in a market for his product. And from my experience it’s fairly accurate, right? In it, let's say Okay, so let's say you have this product, these are the type of people who will be in a market for this type of product, Okay, we'll Chat GPT, if I want to sell to customer number two, what are some of the pain points they have? And how can I solve that, those pain points and spit it out? One? That's step one, step two, step three. So, you know, you really get really deep and, you know, like, say, from my experience, you know, it's about 90% accurate, you know, and that's your industry, you know, of course, you will know, you know more, but for the most part, you know, just as like a brainstorm exercise, it does, you know, fairly well.

Dave Erickson 32:15
So you could kind of ask Chat GPT something like, I am trying to sell T-shirts to heavy metal enthusiasts in the age range between 15 and 30 and what are the product features that they are most interested in? And Chat GPT would spit out a list of stuff that that demographic of heavy metal music listeners are interested in as far as product features for T-shirts. Is that correct?

Joshua Darrington 32:46
100% Just to add on, add on to that I had um, so one of my mentors, he has a huge guitar collection, vintage guitars. And I was telling him I'm like, man this Chat GPT thing, this is like a couple months ago, a month or so ago. And I was telling him like, Yo, this is new. So he was and I was like, I tell you what, give me your best guitar, and I'll write you a product description for it. And it was like some 1971 Gibson flying V, maybe guitar? I don't know. I never heard of the guitar. So I say okay, what's the model number? What is it? Okay, okay. Well, Chat GBT writes me your product description for XYZ. Spit it out. I read it back to him and it was a silence. And he said, wow, do it for this one. I did it for this one, then for this one, his mind was blown basically. And I used it to actually build him a website that could change, you know, all that data. And he was like, say mind blown, but in how, how does it know about that specific guitar? I don't know. Um, you know, but that's kind of, that's what kind of like, freaks me out about what I'm ready for to change, but with the next iteration of Chat GPT, you know, with the 4, if it's going to be 100 times stronger than that, who knows where we're going to be? So that's just something a little bit funny I thought about.

Botond Seres 34:06
All this talk about prompts and answers. We'll be thinking, is there any way to look at the process of what is happening when Chat GPT constructs a given answer?

Joshua Darrington 34:15
Ah, in real time? I don't think so. But um, there is a, one of my friends, my good buddy sent me a pretty much the the white sheet, white paper, I think that's what to call it, of what's happening when you enter in a prompt and where it goes to and things of that nature, but as far as real time? I don't think so. And I think they want to keep that a secret, you know, maybe.

Dave Erickson 34:43
That would be a great question to ask Chat GPT.

Joshua Darrington 34:47
Good point I'm gonna do it when I get off here.

Botond Seres 34:53
This makes me wonder, like, where do the coding answers come from? I mean, let's be Stack Overflow, right?

Joshua Darrington 35:01
I saw something the other day and I think some of the coders are getting upset, like, Hey, you’re stealing our answers. Then, you know, um, I don't know, I think now don't quote me, I think, I think it may pull a little bit from there and Github and things of that nature. But where exactly, I think that's Stack,

Dave Erickson 35:23
In some ways, coding is easier and harder than, say, text content and the reason for that is, is, coding, is a science based on a very specific structure and the syntax of words and commands are very fixed, and not flexible, right? So from that standpoint, if an AI really understood all the rules of coding and the syntax of coding, it can produce some decent code. The problem is, is that it's missing the consciousness to decide if that's actually the right way, the code should be written. Because, like speaking, you can write code to achieve the same goal 10 different ways. And out of those 10 different ways, one of whom will be really efficient, and one of them will be really inefficient, and one of them will be fast in this way, but not fast and another way and so the code that it produces can't make, it can't make the decision as to what's best, it just produces something based on rules that probably can save time, you know? For a developer, they can say, hey, I need some standard code for a login process and it would spit out a login process. And then you know, the coder can go through that and say, Okay, I can clean this up, or I can apply it this way. Or I can do that. I think for large, large coding projects, it probably will always have that disadvantage of not being conscious. Right.

Joshua Darrington 37:01
Right. Now, let me let me use me to another point. So like I said earlier about the datasets, right. So just as a, like, say, I learned a little bit of coding this year, you know, HTML, CSS, and after, like, a week or so that I said, I'll just pay somebody to do it. You know, y'all got a special.

Dave Erickson
Well, that’s why we’re in business.

Joshua Darrington
Yeah, exactly. I'm like, Hey, man, you know, like, I have the time to learn and everything like that, but I'm like, I'll leave it to the experts. But anyway, so what I did, I asked Chat GPT, and this is just when I was testing out the capabilities in the beginning, I asked it to code me a tic tac toe game. And each time I will get a very different answer. And, you know, some of them will be very quick and simple, efficient, and some of them will be to the point where Chat GPT wouldn't even be able to finish it. So then that goes with your point about how, you know, the human part? You know, if you ever, you add tags to code, in tic tac toe, and you say, Okay, so let me take PSPC. Okay, we'll just do it this way. And then Boom. No, but I don't think Chat GPT is there yet to where it could say, Okay, well, this is the most efficient way for this outcome. Let's do it this way.

Botond Seres 38:18
I'm sure like, it would produce the best results if you have something relatively simple. Say, for example, how do I do this specific type of string manipulation? I'm sure it would have the perfect answer, like every time, consistently. But a funny story, one of my friends is big into crypto. It's a passion of his and he's like, okay, Chat GPT write me a bot, which is gonna train my crypto articles be like brah Chat GPT wrote me this code, we just need to start at launch if it's gonna work, like, What language is that? Like, doesn't make sense. It's just, like, 10 different function calls. Nothing about what's the purpose.

Joshua Darrington 39:07
The non-coders, you know, I'm not, I'm not a coder, but um, you know, to us, you know, it tells you the answer, you know, and it'll make it seem like, Hey, this is the answer right here. You know, but until we have some expert in there like you like, oh, like,

Dave Erickson 39:25
It seems like, Chat GPT. I mean, obviously, chat is the clue, it’s really oriented more towards written communication versus coding. Right. And I think that, I think, though, that there's two aspects of Chat GPT where I think there's opportunity for business people, right, and even technologists. One is, you know, there obviously, is an art and an experience and so, people who are using Chat GTP to, to find solutions and to do things, they can sell their services, because the reality is, not everybody's going to be able to use Chat GPT and get great results; there's a learning curve and business people are very busy. And so for them to try to have that learning curve, it might be much more cost effective for them to hire a Chat GPT expert or agency to do the work that they need, because they'll just do it faster and more efficiently because they have that experience. So there's that side of it. I think the other side of it that is a really good opportunity is for businesses who are trying to, you know, do content flows, large volumes of content flows, right. And that's gonna be part of it. And then I think really the third opportunity that isn't as explored yet, is really the integration, right? Because it seems to me that Chat GPT is kind of this standalone thing and you can use it if you're interfacing directly with it, but integrating it into a business and integrating it into digital products, I think that's the area that it still seems to need a lot of work in, right. And there's, there’s going to be people who are going to develop an expertise for doing that. And it's gonna be much more cost effective for them to do it than for somebody else to try to learn how to do that. So I think those are kind of the, some of the three opportunities. And the one that I think is most interesting is actually the integration. Now, you mentioned that they just came out with an API, what do you know about the Chat GPT API?

Joshua Darrington 41:50
I'm not like I say, I literally, I think it was like 10 o'clock when I seen it was on Twitter

Dave Erickson
It like, literally came out like yesterday.

Joshua Darrington
Yeah, like literally, and I sent it to myself, you know, this, I can make sure I check it out. But I think like say I think as far as as far as what I know, is like I say it's openly available, and you can go sign up. And you know, me, like I say, I've tested out that code, and I'm like, Hey, man, you know. But like, it's almost definitely learn more about it. But you know, it is available. And like I say it just came out really last night, and I wouldn't sleep on it. So yeah.

Dave Erickson 42:29
Yeah, we have a lot of experience with API's. And API's are kind of like cars, you can get one that is a Ferrari, and you can get one that is a Fiat Uno, right. And you may not know what it is, you may just be saying, hey, it's ran, I need your API. And the API can be really good and really fast and really easy to work with, or it can be an absolute nightmare and not work. So you know, API is our blind box in that sense. Right.

Joshua Darrington 43:00
Right. And like I say, I think as time goes on, you know, we'll we'll stay up to date on what's going on with the use case of it. But to your point, you know, I think that integration hasn't really happened yet. And like I say, I think that's where one of the most major opportunities are, like if someone can figure out how to integrate Chat GPT into, I know, they've done a little bit of this, or this with like, Chrome extensions, but it's not nothing too major. It's still based around Chat GPT. But as far as like, specific use cases, like it, and speaking, it is, when you accept Chat GPT for business ideas, that's one of the main ones it gives you time after time. Like, I used to, be to just a brainstorm some time, like, Okay, what about this area? What about this, but time after time, and if you can go wherever is really listening to this right now, you can actually give me some business ideas, and they will keep telling you chatbot, chatbot, chatbot, chatbot integration interface. I know, that's not my personal area of expertise. So I had to figure out a way. But for the coders out there, who really, um, you know, you know, when to get into it, I think, you know, that's a major, major opportunity. And there's a huge moat, that many people who are like me, I love tech to be cheap, but I just know, that's not my Steelo or my, my, you know, my area. So you know, I can't get into it, or I can't, but you know, it wouldn't be me. But for those out there who, you know, really want to make a difference and quick story. So I actually went on this Twitter space. Talking about Chat GPT, and there was this guy on there. You know, everybody else was a proponent. Yeah, Chat GPT Woo. And there's a coder on there. This guy name was stack something. And he got on there. And he was like, Yeah, well, you know, tried Chat GPT, I've been hearing about it. Honestly, I think it's a watch. And I said, Okay, well, you know, and he said, Yeah, I've been hearing about it, I'll test it a little bit. It's not really nothing major, makes a lot of errors, etc, etc. And I, um, you know, I was one of the speakers and I told him, I said, Well, honestly, this is what it's going to come down to. And like I said, I probably, I used Chat GPT 10 hours a day. So I think I can speak on this. I think it's going to come down to those who are going to use it versus those who don't. And just like, when the internet came out, there was a lot of businesses who are the internet, you know, we do it the right way. You know, and the Internet came in, scooped up and washed out a lot of businesses just because some people were too stubborn to, you know, develop with, with the technology. And that's, that's what that guy sounded like. And I was telling him, I'm like, man, you know, okay, I don't want to go into the iRobot future, either. But, you know, seeing that you'd be on the right side of history or on the wrong side, and you sound like you want to be on the wrong side. But for everyone out there, you know, and you're listening to this, I believe you're interested, you know, you want to be on the right side of history, you know, and, you know, that's, time is gonna evolution who's gonna continue to progress? And, you know, you just, you just gotta go with the flow? Well,

Dave Erickson 46:15
Well, you know, a lot of businesses are starting to ask the question, how can we use Chat GPT and how can I apply it to my business? I'm curious, we've kind of talked a little bit about the written side. How was Chat GPT with numbers? Like, can you ask it accounting questions? Or can you ask it to solve math problems? I'm just curious. I've never even thought of asking him to do that. But

Joshua Darrington 46:45
Accounting, yes. You know, you give it the data set and ask it to you know, separate this, this is that, and this is that, it will do that. But as far as like, and you say something like Jack had four apples, Sarah took away one, how many? It doesn't, I don't know, I don't know why, but it just doesn't. It doesn't do well with that. Yeah, it just doesn't compute but it is, you know, hopefully, maybe in the future, but I'm like, you know, it does well to text. And, you know, who does Math nowadays anyway.

Dave Erickson 47:13
Yeah, I know that a lot of AI, particularly through machine learning, takes large data sets, samples of numbers and other data, census data or other data and then analyzes the data and puts together summaries of the data. Is Chat GPT good for that, or is that better to be left with machine learning? Programming?

Joshua Darrington 47:39
I believe so. You know, if you, like I say, I think in that particular case, you know, it comes down to what you input and I believe, if you input and word it correctly, it will give you a great outcome from my understanding..

Dave Erickson 47:53
Yeah, that ,that art of prompt engineering, I think really started showing its head with Chat GPT. It doesn't seem to be something that people are talking a lot about.

Joshua Darrington 48:05
To your point, I was gonna say it's, it started me you know, some whispers, you know, some other people who have been, you know, really ingrained in it understand, you know, but like I say, um, for everyone here, depending on where you said he was in, in March, you have about two years before Chat GPT becomes mainstream.

Dave Erickson 48:25
Yeah, it becomes mainstream when all those high schoolers start saying Dear Chat GPT, please write my term papers. Please write my homework assignments.

Botond Seres 48:38
Oh, that's, that's cool. Yeah, I just read this article today and like, some schools are so mad. You couldn't believe they’re so mad.

Joshua Darrington 48:51
Oh, I put in, I put in a, I'm sorry, schools maybe don't beat me up for this, but I put in an area in my course where you can bypass the plagiarism and AI detective. You know, so now, you know, schools, I've seen a Forbes article like is at a point where they were talking about how are these teachers going to combat Chat GPT and, you know, so the backer right now going on so

Dave Erickson 49:18
Well, and in all honesty, and probably one of the easier ways is that the teachers say that your homework and your term papers have to be handwritten.

Joshua Darrington 49:29
Yeah. Got to go back to old school. Yeah.

Dave Erickson
But yeah, you know.

Botond Seres 49:32
Yeah but still you can get cheated, right? And that's true.

Dave Erickson 49:36
I'm sure there are those students who will do that.

Botond Seres 49:42
But the beautiful thing about it is like the Chat GPT is able to solve all these things, right? And students are using it and not only students but people who are paid to write which is a bit more offensive, in my opinion, like you get the writer for a video, and they're like Hey Chat GPT This is the diagnostic, this is a topic, write manuscripts. Yeah. And then what they do is they go to another AI. And they asked, okay, rewrite this, which is specifically to eliminate plagiarism. That's like, amazing, it was like, three, four step process different AI every time. And by the end, it just passes with flying colors..

Dave Erickson 50:19
I do a lot of marketing content writing and I've experimented. I mean, Jasper is basically the GPT three engine, and they just wrote a lot of integration and other things on top of it and I've used Jasper, for marketing content. And I have found from an efficiency standpoint, um like, you know, it's better to have it write an outline, right? If you say I want an outline on a paper for this, it's usually better because then it puts it in a nice structure. The problem I have found, if I have it write the whole article, that no matter what prompts you have for emotion, it's not, it's not a conscious being. So it really has trouble making things sound emotionally exciting or, you know, to put in the emotion. And the time to edit becomes much longer because you have to read everything, oh, how do I want to change that or don't want to do that. And I've just found that the most efficient way to use AI for marketing writing for shorter con, like 1000 words, or 2000 words, is to have it produce an outline. So at least you have a structure and that helps speed up your writing. And then you just go down the structures, oh, okay, I can write about that, write this, and just fill in the tree, and you get a much better product that's then, then it's a time saver and it still allows you to put the emotion into the writing. That's just my experience with it.

Joshua Darrington 51:52
Yeah, you know, and your own little flavor, you know, no, I can say some people are, you know, some people are going to use it to do everything and some people are, you know, are going to do this, you know, freshen up ideas, etc. But I think you know, when GPT 4 comes out, and it's 100 times stronger than what it is now, it's going to be able to build you an entire business, code the software, tell you where to upload it, write the marketing, copy this data, etc, you know, in five minutes, so you know, and the people say, uh it's almost like the people who are using it, have an extreme superpower. And to your point about if they had to write the essays in class, I mentioned this often I'm like, Chat GPT is basically like having the smartest person on the planet in your pocket. You know, you can ask it anything you want to ask it, and I have a fairly good answer for you, you know, laid out right there. So you know, like I say, 90, this is, this is what blows my mind 97% of people don't even know about it. And when it, when they, when, when the ultra strong version of it does come out, they're still not going to know about it, sort of people who are actually using it and know about it. And you know, you're gonna have an extreme edge upon the people who don't. So that's something I think about everyday.

Botond Seres 53:13
Now that brings around to a different sort of question. Like, is Chat GPT going to be able to understand other languages?

Joshua Darrington 53:23
Already. It already does. What I did, I learned you can take, so what I did, just as an experiment, I like, went to some Chinese website, I've never heard of it, I don't even know what it says. I copied all the text and I put it into Chat GPT, say translate this to English and you know, it's a reason I'll say it's almost like Google Translate, but what Chat GPT you can do, I would say it understands, I think a little bit more languages actually. And you know, understand context, and you can actually get to translate it, and then you want to translate it back. Okay, make it funnier, and translate it back. So yeah, as far as like, does it understand other languages? Absolutely.

Dave Erickson 54:08
So, obviously, asking Chat GPT what to do the prompt engineering, being familiar with how it works and how you can apply it. I assume these are all things you're covering in your training, right?

Joshua Darrington 54:24
Absolutely. Yep. And I know there's many people that reached out to me. There was a guy who reached out to me and let me know that he had a hedge fund and he wants to know how Chat GPT can help him code a software as a will correlate gold with the US dollar and I know now Chat GPT isn't connected to the internet, but there's a website called u.com for the people out there that is connected to internet and we use u.com to able to, you know, help him, his hedge fund so you know, there's many ways you can you know, skin the cat so they say. So you know it’s really unlimited uses.

Dave Erickson 55:03
So u.com, it's y o u.com? Or?

Joshua Darrington 55:08
Y.O.U.com. Let's say it's built, it's honestly, here's the thing. So I've been using it, you know, fairly frequently, and I went back to use Google and it felt like I was going back in the past. And I'll only use it for like, when I, when I did the experiment, I'll only use it for like, 10 minutes and when I went back to use Google, it felt like, bad. Yeah, no, and that was a little bit freaky. I'm like, and that's kind of why Google was freaking out a little bit, you know, to another point, that's why you're seeing a lot of people getting laid off, because they understand the technology and you know, they're not going to say this to the public, but they understand what's going on behind the scenes. And, to my point, earlier, I was telling everyone, you have to use this, you have to use it, because what's going to happen is, especially if you're, if you're in an organization, because it's going to come down to one person. Soon, very soon, we'll be able to do jobs of 10 people, specifically in writing, and, you know, that whole sphere, so if you're not using it, you're pretty much opening up yourself for that one super employee, they'll get paid three people's salaries, you know, to do the work of 10 people. So the Google, Microsoft, some of them that Amazon, they're starting to understand this, you know, they're not gonna say it out to the public, they're just gonna, you know,

Dave Erickson 56:30
Yeah, we've seen that in the industry,that a technology comes along and it allows for increased productivity. But what we have found is, to your point, in a sense, the people who actually can use that technology, to actually see the productivity increase, they themselves need to become experienced and educated. And even once that happens, it still needs other people to be involved. So yes, it reduces headcount in a way, but then it requires different resources. Right, and Google, yeah, they're laying off people a very small percentage, not even getting close to anything of what they hired in 2022. But they aren't laying off their AI department, they're probably going to be focusing more on it. And I do agree that Chat GPT has the opportunity to become very productive, but it would not surprise me if Chat GPT 4, or the GPT 4 engine will basically be a monetized product. And basically, they'll let you use GPT 3 for free. And if you want to get the benefits of 4, you're going to probably have to pay and once you have to start paying for something, then that kind of changes the equation a little bit. But I think it's all important. And to kind of come back to it, being knowledgeable and educated about Chat GPT is really what's going to allow you to see a benefit. So maybe in that vein, you can talk a little bit about your courses and what you have on Udemy, and how people can find your courses and use them to grow.

Joshua Darrington 58:18
I actually wasn't gonna create the cord. But what happened was, when I looked, I said, Okay, well, I need to learn more about this. And YouTube videos, you know, YouTube is okay, for good information. You know, but a lot of times, you know, if you really want to really grow in something, you need structured information, you know, because a lot of people will tell you this, and then they and then you know, you try to put it all together, it's not gonna work. But I went and looked on Udemy and there was no information. There was, you know, one, one course or one, and it had to do with a chatbot service or something, I don't know something, not what I'll try to learn about. So I'm, actually didn't, wasn't doing anything major at the time so I said, Well, I guess, I guess this is me. So what I did is, I studied. I was actually already using Chat GPT a lot, but I said, Okay, well, I need to put all the, all of what I know. And I still have information today, I have some videos to shoot today. You know, it's the one course where people can understand, Okay, for this specific task, and this is what I want to do, I want to learn a few, there’s a few things I have my course that include use cases. So if you're just a beginner, and you want to know, okay, well what can Chat GPT do? What are some of the use cases, you know, what is what is it’s range? I talked about all of the use cases. And what a lot of people want to know is how can you make money from it? That's, you know, that's one of the things I thought about, okay, well, this is the most amazing technology, since the internet, how can I be on the right side and make some money from it? So I've talked about many different ways, about how you can make money from it. Also there are, I put some secret ways that I've added, you know, that I've just discovered I'm like, Well, what am I talking about this and I include that as well. Also include some funny things. There's actually one Course one section in here that talks about how you can use chat duty as a lawyer you can access to give you legal advice. Speaking of that, there was a Chat GPT bot per se, they actually went to court as a lawyer. And I think it won its case, they actually tried to go to the Supreme Court. So it can act as a comedian, one of the funniest ways I found is that you can ask people, you can use chatting to speak to your favorite character. So let's say you have a favorite movie, you have a favorite TV show and you know, you just want to just have a little time to burn. Okay, let me go talk to Eisenberg or something like that. So, you know, there's many, many use cases. I have a couple of podcast episodes just covering the latest news on what's going on in the sphere and like I say this is all I do. Honestly, I’m, I'm on 10 hours a day testing. I'm speaking to people, you know, seeing how it can help different industries. I'm getting, you know, what I had, one lady asked me, she runs a county fair website, um, you know, and wants to know how I can help her, you know, her situation and I'm just, you know, listen to how her business operates, Okay, so here's some things you could do. And I had another guy contact me. He has a publisher, and he heard about Chat GPT and he's in the Netherlands and he wants to know how I can help him. So I'm just all over the place with you know, learning. Every day I study, I'm all the hashtag, the, the discourse and everything like that, just like I learned, you know, this is my life now, you know, and I can't imagine not going around the internet. Okay, Chat GPT. So,

Dave Erickson 1:01:31
That's what it takes to be a good teacher and instructor. How can people find you on Udemy? They just type in your name Joshua, or?

Joshua Darrington 1:01:39
Yeah. Okay. Oh, currently, right now, I'm the number one, so I'm trying to hold my spot up. But yeah, if you type in Chat GPT I should be the first one to pop up. The course is called, one second I don’t want to mess this up, Chat GBT, the complete Chat GBT guy from zero to hero. Yeah. So fairly simple. You know, like, I want to take those out there who want to learn just the basics and what it can do. There's something for you, and also those who have heard about Chat GPT and want to know, okay, what are some of the advanced ways I can use it for specific use cases? Now there's something in there for them as well.

Dave Erickson 1:02:16
Perfect. Well, Joshua, thank you so much for being on The ScreamingBox Technology and Business Rundown Podcast. For our listeners, we will be releasing this and a month later, we'll have our next podcast. Look forward to joining everyone, then until then, stay happy and healthy.

Joshua Darrington 1:02:38
Perfect, man. This is beautiful. I enjoyed the experience and you know, I like this. I love these you know, podcasts, you know, and for all the listeners out there, you know, this is one of the best places you can get information from the people in the business. So this is great.

Dave Erickson 1:02:51
Well, thank you very much, Joshua.

Joshua Darrington 1:02:53
All right. Talk to you soon.

Dave Erickson 1:02:56
Thank you very much for taking this journey with us. Join us for our next exciting exploration of technology and business in the first week of every month. Please help us by subscribing, liking and following us on whichever platform you're listening to or watching us on. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and please let us know any subjects or topics you'd like us to discuss in our next podcast by leaving a message for us in the comment sections or sending us a Twitter DM. Till next month. Please stay happy and healthy.

END

0:32 - Introduction to this month’s podcast.
5:34 - How many data sets do you have in GPT?
9:47 - How sensitive is GPT to grammatical errors?
14:17 - How does GPT decide which data sets to use at which moment?
19:56 - How to use Chat GPT for e-mails.
24:48 - What’s the difference between prompt engineering and prompt writing?
29:12 - The art of Chat GPT is the art of understanding how to apply it.
34:43 - Where do the coding answers come from?
39:25 - Chat GPT as an opportunity for business people.
44:01 - When should you get in the AI space?
49:18 - How to use GPT for marketing content writing.
56:30 - The importance of being knowledgeable and educated about Chat GPT.
56:30 – The importance of being knowledgeable and educated about Chat GPT.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS
chatgpt, artificial intelligence, dbt, business, writing, ai, joshua darrington, prompt engineering, api, email, website, coding, udemy