ScreamingBox Technology & Business Rundown

SPEAKERS
Botond Seres, Dave Erickson, Glenn Rudin

Dave Erickson 00:31
Welcome to the ScreamingBox technology and business rundown podcast. In this month's podcast I Dave Erickson and my co hosts Botond Seres are looking to learn how to make the ultimate pitch with our guests, Glenn Rudin. Glenn is a sales and marketing consultant and a coach with extensive experience in both sales and marketing and now specializes in breakthrough messaging, brand development and product creation, working for companies such as Revlon, and Shiseido. Glenn has developed a business winning sales and marketing strategies. Later, he created and sold numerous consumer products to some of the largest retailers in the world, including Walmart, Target, CVS, Macy's, and Lowe's. Today, we're going to find out how to develop a unique selling proposition and to build it into a pitch that will grow a business. So Glenn, what did I miss? Is there anything you'd like to add to the breakthrough intro that we just did?

Glenn Rudin 01:25
Well, Dave, I really appreciate the introduction, I think it gives everybody a good snippet of some of the things I've been involved in and over 40 year career that I've been working in this space, and why I consider myself somewhat of an authority on how to create great messaging for businesses. So thank you, and to Botond for, for having me here and I’m looking forward to our interactions today.

Dave Erickson 01:52
So when you worked in corporate America, what were some of the things that you started out doing and what were the kind of takeaways for you?

Glenn Rudin 02:00
Well, you know, it's a really interesting industry. Both Revlon and Shiseido are in the, you know, in all levels of the cosmetics industry. And from a branding and a messaging and copy writing perspective, you really couldn't start in a better place, because everything there involves storytelling, right. We're trying to get men and women to part with $30, $40, $50, over $100, sometimes and even more expensive for items like, facial treatments, and perfumes, and colognes. And the way that that's done is by really romancing those products through the copy writing that's done for them. Because in that industry, you're either relying on packaging to be attractive, so that customers will pick it up, of course, things need to smell really good as well and then you're relying on the people who work in the various channels of distribution, the salespeople at counters and department stores all over the world, to brush up on product knowledge about these products and help romance them to customers. And so working in that industry gave me a really good sense about how important packaging, copywriting, visuals, all are, in terms of getting somebody to actually pick something up, and really wanting to part with money for it in exchange for the imagery, the branding, the way that product feels in their hands. So it was a great place for me to really start and understand this relationship between copy packaging, branding, and the entire sales transaction.

Botond Seres 03:53
Speaking of convincing people to part with their money, startups are a great way to do that. So many people, parts with vast amounts of money that way. How important would you say is messaging and branding in the overall success of a startup?

Glenn Rudin 04:07
In the cases of just you know, individual products and or company, and again, we can come back, I want to make sure I understand the first question that, that you asked. It's really being able to share a vision so that somebody else can see why this thing that you feel passionate about matters in the world, and how well you can create that vision so that somebody who's not as familiar or immersed in it as you are, can now see this from your perspective and understand where there's an opportunity in the marketplace to be able to capitalize on this opportunity based on the value that you're you're giving to it. So the idea really is to be able to transfer that vision from where you see it in your mind or have, have it written out on paper. To get somebody who's listening to you to be maybe not equally as excited, but certainly excited enough to think, Wow, this is something that I can really see. And I can understand why somebody would want money invested in this. And I can see where I would want to be that person who wants to be a part of this vision. So I think it's really a question of transferring that vision from what you see in your head, so that somebody else can really understand what that is and be as passionate about it as you are.

Botond Seres 05:32
It makes total sense. And I do understand that something I've never even thought about. So I mean, having never to start with the startup, I have no experience in getting any investment capital. But that's something that never came up in my mind as, as a roadblock. I always thought that people just get to sit down with venture capitalists and convince them why it's a great idea to invest. But indeed, there is an immeasurable value in attracting the right kind of investor, instead of seeking them out. What I was originally trying to ask is, how important messaging and branding is, on the, let's say, sales side of startups, so attracting customers.

Glenn Rudin 06:25
Okay. Okay. And it's a great question. And it's one that so many entrepreneurs, and startup companies fail to realize, because your messaging is, in essence, your ticket to the show. Because if you don't have accurate, not only accurate messaging, but attractive messaging, that gets somebody's thinking that they want to hear more, if the messaging doesn't create engagement, you really can't get to the next level, whether it's working with investors, whether it's working with a consumer on just, you know, a business to a consumer level, if the messaging isn't there, that doesn't give somebody the idea that they're missing out on something, because they don't have it now and you're describing it, then you never really get to a place where you can scale it up, where you can actually ask for money for it. And what happens many times, Botox is people, people mistake, good, clean, clear messaging that resonates with messaging that is loaded with all kinds of terms are technicalities, or large words or difficult concepts to explain quickly. And most people don't have the intelligence or the attention span, in spite of what we might think, to follow along. And so that messaging has got to be simple and attractive, it's got to be concise. But it's also got to be to a point where someone hears it, there's something intriguing or interesting about it, and they want more knowledge on the topic. And where most people fail, is they either load that messaging with complex ideas or thoughts, thinking that if I make this sound really technical, someone will be really impressed. And it has the opposite effect. It confuses them. And in the case of investors, people who want to be highly regarded and want to be well thought of the last thing in the world, an investor wants to do, is appear confused by what you're doing. Because it makes them look like they're not smart, or they're not knowledgeable. And so very often somebody will just nod their head in agreement with you as you're doing that, but they won't ask follow up questions because you've confused them. And many times, that just shuts off the entire transaction right there, because someone doesn't necessarily want to admit that they don't understand what you're speaking about and the goal for you is not to get the idea to re-explain it. But to explain it the first time in a way that it's engaging enough for someone to get the main concept and say, Wow, Botond, I want to hear more about that.

Dave Erickson 09:21
I've been through several accelerators and other things with startups. And the worst pitch decks or decks that are about what they're doing, are the ones that are written by the founders who happen to be engineers, who develop the product or develop the technique. And then they said, Oh, I'm just going to make a PowerPoint about what it is. And it's literally, you know, like a university level PhD thesis is what their PowerPoint presentation is about their product. And it you know, people just don't get it and probably, you know, one of the things that I learned in that experience as a technical founder developing a technical product, you should never write your own presentations, right? Because you should be able to explain what you want to somebody and then they take that and dumb it down, and I don't think dumb it down is the right word, simplify it, make it clear, and figure out what are really the main business points out of that.

Glenn Rudin 10:27
Right. So Albert Einstein has the best quote on this, which is, if you can't explain it simply enough, you don't understand it well enough, right? If you, if you think in terms of the complicated formulations and technicalities of let's say, a pharmaceutical item, right, and we see these ads on television all the time, right, they don't get into the nano-science of what's really involved behind what their compounds do to cure the complex things that are going on inside the molecules inside your bloodstream, and all the rest of it. They simplify it down to Hey, do you have this particular issue on your skin, and people start thinking, hey, I think I do, I've got something that actually bothers me on my skin, and listening in further to try and find out how I get this thing that might help me with something that I might actually have on my skin. And if you'll notice, they do this in 25, or 30 seconds on a commercial, or in an ad that you might see running on YouTube, right YouTube, you've got five seconds, to get some kind of a point across that someone either says I'll listen further, or I'm going to cut this off now and skip the ads. So that that gives you a great sense about how the clock is literally ticking inside all of our heads and why we really need to endeavor to simplify these messages as much as we can make them as relatable as we possibly can. And even in a sense, make them empathetic, so somebody feels like you're speaking to me about something that concerns me. But you're absolutely right, if you're somebody who's very technical, and you don't have an ability to really communicate on a very simple level, you probably are not the one who belongs writing the copy for your elevator pitch, for your pitch deck, for anything really, that involves something that's going out there for the consumer to consume, to read and want to react to.

Dave Erickson 12:38
What are kind of the components of this successful kind of initial pitch, say, or trying to do the, you know, a 15 second elevator pitch? You're going to stand up, you're going to tell somebody about your idea and why they should invest in it. Right? What would be kind of the components of putting a pitch together? Like what are the things you need to think about in coming up with kind of a, an elevator pitch or a sentence that describes your product.

Glenn Rudin 13:07
Right, and so let's distinguish also, because people watching might think, you know, confusing a pitch deck with an elevator pitch, right? So a pitch deck could be a 10, or 15, slide or page presentation, that gets into much more detail, sales, analysis and projections, and market research and things like that. So that would be a pitch deck. And we might spend a little time speaking about that. But if we're speaking about an elevator pitch, from my perspective, the way I teach this to my clients, or students that attend my my courses, it's really strict in terms of the time limit. So I always say it's 30 seconds, if you can do it in 25 seconds without really speaking fast and getting somebody thinking, making them nervous and really no more than 35 seconds, because that's more than enough if you're properly prepared to do it the right way. And the most important part of any pitch, and I'd say 70 to 80% of the people that I come in contact with get this wrong, is the introduction, the very first few things you're going to say that might be 8, 10,12 words and maybe about 8 to 10 seconds and that is the introduction to your pitch. And this is the most crucial part of it, because if you don't start strongly with that pitch, there's no way in the world you can ever finish strong because you'll lose somebody and you can't get them back. Now, the way I teach this is by either using a question or a fact at the top of my pitch in the introduction that will get somebody listening, leaning in and engaged in wanting to hear more. So if I was doing one say for my particular business, I would say 90% of the people I come in contact with struggle with their message, their pitch or their branding. Just that sentence, 90% of the people I come in contact with, because now there's a really good chance I'm talking to you, Dave, or I'm talking to you Botond because I'm talking about 9 out of 10 people. So when I say that most people do listen in and say, Wait a second, this sounds like something I want to hear more of, so I've got them engaged. The other way that I can do that is I can say, did you know that 9 out of 10 people I come in contact with struggle with their message, or with their pitch or their branding? And again, it's a bit softer there, it's a bit more empathetic than just throwing a fact at them. So when I say Did you know, right off the bat, someone's leaning in, What did I, What, Did I know what? And now I'm going to say something that there's a really good chance they're a part of the audience I'm addressing. So that introduction is of massive importance when you are doing a pitch because as I just stated, if you don't start strong, if you don't get initial engagement, then you will lose the audience and they will immediately start thinking, Who's the next person pitching or what do I have to do after work, or where am I going for lunch Right? You've lost them. And one of the ways, one of the most common ways that people lose them is, there are actually two, one is providing information we don't need, so you'll notice when I did the top of my pitch there, I didn't mention that my name is Glenn Burden, I didn't tell you that my company is called Always Been Creative, that I'm known as the message master, or that my company is located in Long Island in New York. Why didn't I mention those things? Because none of those matters to you, Dave, none of them matter to Botond and none of them matter to anybody who's listening, because you're not buying my company. You're not buying me, you're not coming to visit me, I haven't invited you, so why would I bother filling up 30 valuable seconds with any of that information? And yet people do that all the time. And why do they do it? Because they're nervous and they're unprepared for what the rest of the pitch needs to be. And they figure this is a great way to use up some time and put some information out there and not sound like I completely don't know what I'm doing. And yet you're wasting valuable listening attention time by giving me information I don't need, you don't add that entity. And believe me, if somebody hears somebody, something interesting that you said, they will endeavor to find out who you are, what your company name is, or if they can visit you or spend time with you how to do that. The second thing, and we spoke about this just a moment ago, also a bit earlier in our, in our interview, is filling up your introduction in your pitch with technical terms or college words. Because when you use big words, what you do is you stop somebody from listening to you and you start them thinking about that first big technical word that you just used and their brain starts thinking, I know that word, I think I know that word. What does that word mean? In the meantime, you haven't stopped to let them catch up, you've continued with their pitch, and they're no longer listening. Now, if you put a second technical word in there, if they were smart enough to figure out the first one, now they're busy working on the second one, and you're done. They just kind of thought about what those two words were. And you're looking at them thinking, Did you get me and they're looking at you thinking, I have no idea what he just finished saying. And so you completely take somebody off the track of listening to you by putting those technical terms in there. And so the advice that I give, the people that I teach on this is create a pitch that is easily understood by somebody who's about 14 years old here in the States, both time we would say middle school, I don't know how you would say that where you are, but if you can address your pitch at a level of a middle schooler, a 14 year old, then you know anybody working in the business world should be able to comprehend what you're speaking about. So that's a really good basics, a long winded answer on how to get your elevator pitch started the right way.

Dave Erickson 19:32
Yeah, for me, I think elevator pitches are really important because they're so useful in a lot of ways. It's not just pitching to an investor. But even if it's just you're talking to your mom, and she says what are you working on? Or you're trying to put up your first website to promote your product. You know that elevator pitch is really what should be kind of on the opening of your website, just to describe what you're doing right. So I think people don't focus enough on the initial elevator pitch. It's also, you know, using your guidelines as simplifying it really can make it so you can get your message across as to what you're actually trying to do quickly. And that's so important in today's world.

Glenn Rudin 20:18
Right, and listen, true and keep this in mind. And people mistake this both in pitch decks and elevator pitches, which we're speaking about right now, the idea of your elevator pitch is not to sell anything, you're not selling anything, what you're trying to do is create engagement, and follow up. So typically here, you know, in the States, when probably where you are also Botond, right, you're, you're going to be in a room networking, let's say with 25 or 30 people and, you know, we go around the room, and everybody does their elevator pitch one after another after another and by the 10th, or 15th, listen, we've all kind of had it with what it is. So depending on when you get to do yours, in what order, you could actually suffer from elevator pitch fatigue, because people have now heard 15, most likely not very good elevator pitches, and yet the it's going to process is going to continue and what people fail to understand is the idea here in that room of 25 or 30 people is to get it so that five or six of those people when the meeting is over, they say hey, Dave, hey, Botond, what you just said, that sounded interesting, I made a little note here wanting to get your business card and follow up. A lot of people make the mistake of thinking, I'm doing this right now and Dave, or Botond, is going to follow up with me right afterward and say, How do I give you $1,000 for your course? How do I pay you to be my consultant? And that's not really the idea. I'm hoping to say enough things about what I do, or enough things about my product, just in that short period of time, something interesting, so that you'll want to hear more, no sales, no transactions, just the idea that was interesting. How can I get more information?

Botond Seres 22:16
So elevator pitch is to generate interest and then a pitch deck is to reel them in. Do I get that correct?

Glenn Rudin 22:25
Well, so if this is interesting too, because people, you know, here in the States, and I think in Europe, too and maybe you've you've seen the show Shark Tank, are you familiar with that show at this point, Botond or Dragon's Den?

Botond Seres 22:39
I hate that show so much, but yeah, I know it.

Glenn Rudin 22:43
So people, people get the idea, because that show is drama, right, hat is somewhat scripted a bit. And people do these, you know, five minute pitches and then these billionaire investors are buying right into what they do. Now, behind the scenes, there is a whole lot of negotiation that goes on behind the scenes. But for the dramatics of television, right, it's just better TV if somebody does this and someone immediately wants to invest. But the truth is really working with Angel Investors, people whose money is really near and dear to them and they're not on TV, playing some role that you know, that people are going to admire and say, Wow, look at that billionaire, how we wheels and deals that percentages and the money that he throws around. When you really are doing a pitch deck for Angel Investors, they too, are just looking to see is this a concept that I might be interested in? Is there enough here to create a follow up meeting to create questions and say, sounds interesting, now kind of get more details, as opposed to you're doing the pitch deck, and someone's got their checkbook out and says, you know, here's, here's a half a million dollars for your concept. So the pitch deck in a lot of ways is similar to the elevator pitch. What I'm really trying to do is create a bit of a relationship with somebody who I know has money and may be interested in investing that money somewhere and I want them to be interested enough in what I've discovered, what I'm putting out there to say, I've heard a lot of pitches, your sounds interesting. Let's have a deeper discussion about this. So that pitch deck, really the idea there is to get into a more serious meeting after that initial meeting where someone has really had a chance to digest this, go back and do some research based on the information you've provided and say it looks to me like maybe there is an opportunity in the marketplace, tell me how you really are going to go about doing this so I can decide if in fact I want to invest, how much I want to invest and what percentage of your company might even be willing to part with if we can come to an agreement about this.

Botond Seres 24:57
So do you think that there is a different dimension, all of these discussions. I think that is to get the investor emotionally attached to the idea of this product or this service or whatever.

Glenn Rudin 25:11
Absolutely.

Botond Seres 25:15
And one of the things I do admire about, sorry, Dragon's Den. I just saw a clip a few days ago, and there was this guy who invented some life saving device, whatever it was, but every single Dragon was instantly emotionally invested and everyone wanted the piece of the pie. And that's something that so many people neglect. They just go like, Oh, this percentage, that market share, this production cost, whatever. I don't feel like that's so important, right?

Glenn Rudin 25:49
And think about they, I'm sure they had a lead in sizzle video that they did for whatever that investment was and they dramatized exactly how this item works and how it dramatically saved somebody's life. So that anybody looking at it can immediately say, if that was me laying on the ground, or stuck in that car, or someone that I knew was in some horrible situation, I could see that thing saving my life or someone's life that I really cared about. And so it's creating this empathetic connection to that item to say, I could see where this has a place in my life. And if I can see where it has a place in my life, and it's priced right, then I can see where it might have a place in the consumers life in general in the marketplace. And then somebody who's an investor like that Botond, start seeing the numbers adding up in their head, How can we scale this so that if it'll work for me, really simply, I understand it, now what happens if we put $10 million worth of advertising behind this and show this to the world and the world looks at it and says, Wow, that's a small investment to make to potentially save somebody's life in this situation, that we're all in all of the time. So exactly what we're speaking about, they've made a compelling video, which makes it come to life for somebody so they can now understand why this thing exists, and how it's going to work for me.

Botond Seres 27:30
Right. I mean, one of my favorite things about in marketing as a whole is, I don't know if you're familiar with Dior Sauvage and its branding.

Glenn Rudin 27:40
Oh, Dior Sauvage. Okay.

Botond Seres 27:45
Yeah, Dior Sauvage, and Johnny Depp is just walking around, I don’t know, digging some hole in the middle of the desert, and everybody's like, Oh, I want to be as cool as him. It just works.

Glenn Rudin 27:58
Imagery, imagery. Well, interesting you brought that up. I do a weekly show on the, the app clubhouse. And you know, one of the things that I do in my, in my segment, I've got a segment every Friday morning, 7:30, EST here and in the states that runs for a half hour. And one of the things that I do is I talk about something that happened on this particular day in history and I was just doing some research for, for my show and it's funny, you brought up an item like that, because this Friday, in 1919, Coco Chanel introduced the fragrance Chanel number five. And the reason that,

Botond Seres
That’s a historical fragrance.

Glenn Rudin
and that's a story in and of itself, right in terms of what that all led to. She already had a fashion house and she was already doing designing, but that fragrance really cemented her in the world. And it's interesting because you talk about differentiation, which is one of the keys to a good elevator pitch, which is one of the great keys to a pitch deck. What's different about your company, your product or service than other people in the market that are already doing this? And when she came out with her fragrance, the company that actually was the fragrance house that was mixing her fragrance, the story goes that supposedly they put a bit too much formaldehyde in one of the samples. And it turned out to be the fifth sample that she tried. And this one with all that formaldehyde smelled much different than most of the fragrances that were available at that time, which were mainly floral or fruity for me using all kinds of natural fragrance. And so all of a sudden people put on this Chanel Number five, and it smelled different. It smelled great, but it smelled different and than the other fragrances that were available at the time. And that difference is what allowed it to stand out versus everything else that was out there. And then just to take it and romance it a bit further. So this was the fifth sample and she decided that she was going to launch this on the fifth day of the fifth month, May 5. And so that's what May 5 represents for Chanel Number five, and I'm sure most women who have used that fragrance over all these, you know, 100 plus years that it's been around, have no idea why it is Chanel, number five, but, but that's a lot of the lore behind it, and a lot of the imagery behind it. But the differentiation, in terms of how that smelled, versus everything else that was available on the market at that time was what allowed it to stand out.

Botond Seres 30:49
To be fair, to all the women who didn't know about this story, neither did I, being a fragrance buff in a lot of ways. I had no idea. But yeah, thanks, thanks for sharing that Glenn.

Dave Erickson 31:02
It seems like in, in a pitch, whether it's an elevator pitch or a pitch deck, or even just copy for your website, it seems like the, you know, two of the key components are some kind of emotional connection, differentiation. What are some of the other, are there some other components that are important?

Glenn Rudin 31:25
Well, you know, again, you know, you can't overstate the idea of, of the differentiation, because you have to understand that in the world that we that we live in today, right, you know, 2023, so if you're coming up with a new concept, and the leg that you're standing on for that is that it's a new concept, you have to remember something, society, the world, we've been living without whatever this is, for the last 2023 years so there's a really good chance, we could probably make it a bit longer without what you're doing now. So if what you're doing is, is not different enough from what somebody else is doing and if newness is not enough, there's probably not a good reason, right? We're all creatures of habit, right? We all like the things we like, we use the soaps that we use, we use the colognes that, you know, that Botond just mentioned, we drive the car brands that we drive, we buy the breakfast cereals that we buy, all of these things are habits that we have built in. And so if you come along with something new, and you want us to change, we're creatures of habit, you've got to give us a great reason why we want to change something that we do now, that we're already comfortable with now. And newness, some people just love newness, but for the most part, that's not enough to sustain it. So differentiation is really super, super important. And of course, listen, the key question to any of these things is why? Why does your business or product exist? Why does it matter to us? Why does it matter to the world? If you can't sit down and answer that in one quick sentence that somebody would read and understand, then you've got to go back to the drawing board. And you've got to say, I've got to work on this some more so I can really tell Dave, and Botond and the audience, why what I'm doing matters, why is it going to matter to anybody? Before you can even get into the differentiation, why? Just think about that. It's, it seems simple enough. and yet most people do not take the time to really get that down on paper so that when somebody says, How come I want what you're doing? Can you tell me why it's important? And they can't, because they haven't taken the time to do it.
Botond Seres 33:54
Right. It doesn't even have to be something world changing that upsets the whole market. It can just be because it's cool. This way you want it this way. I want it. That's why everyone would want it.

Glenn Rudin
Yeah. Listen.

Dave Erickson 34:05
Well, part of, part of cool is kind of making it cool. And part of the process of making it cool. Is your messaging.

Glenn Rudin 34:14
Yeah. Yeah. Because it's just cool in and of itself. You know, again, if you think now I'm sitting in front of a table of investors, and they want to know why this particular item is going to stand out. And let's you know, we'll take that fragrance idea out a little bit further. Right now, these big fragrance companies like Dior, like Chanel, you know, name whichever. Tom Ford, you know, named the most popular ones that are out there now. Right? They have got lots of equity that they're building on top of. So it's fashion, right? It's imagery that's out there in the marketplace. They already have a fan base that's probably worn some other Dior cologne that they already like. So now they're going to come out with: something that smells different, the package may be different, the bottle is certainly going to be different. We know how much money cosmetic companies invest in packaging and in imagery, right? So if you were just the startup, and you were launching a new fragrance, in my judgment, I believe you'd have to come up with some reason that, hey, we, you know, we tested this on 5000 men, and every single one of them got a date within 20 minutes of wearing it. Oh, well, okay, now you're gonna you put something out there that obviously, there's something in that fragrance that really attracts, whether it's the opposite sex or the same sex, but there's something in there that really gets somebody moving. Now you've got some technology built into your fragrance that would allow an investor to say that sounds different. Because if you're just out there, and you're trying to appeal on the scent, that's a little bit more just subjective, smells really good to me, it might not smell really good to your investor, maybe your investor, you know, again, they're sitting down, and they're thinking, this is going to be a proposal based on a cologne, or a perfume. But if there's not a real reason for why this one that differentiates it, you might have a really difficult time getting somebody to say, I want to invest in that. So cool, is great, but behind cool, then you've got to be willing to say, and we've got X amount of dollars that we're going to be spending on this, to show that it is really cool to the marketplace, and really establish that coolness with the target audience. And now somebody's looking at that saying, Oh, okay, and how are we going to be, you know, getting that out there? How's it going to be distributed? How are these people that think this is cool going to get their hands on it? How are they going to smell it? And that's a big part of, you know, the marketing campaign behind the fragrance that will determine whether or not this actually can get some market share or not.

Botond Seres 37:04
Or hear me out, when we could say, 9 out of 10 dentists recommended our fragrance.

Dave Erickson 37:11
Of course, I think a good, I think a good example of this, at least for me, is Oakley. Because their product, you know, they position it with a lot of branding that's related to cool, but they also back it up with a lot of technology, right? They talk about how it's better for performance and how it was more comfortable and the way they designed the glass and all that. I think that's a fairly good example of how they market a lot on cool. But they also kind of have something in the back end to, to give you some real differentiation between another pair of sunglasses that could also look cool, but may not have the same technology or not have technology.

Glenn Rudin 37:51
Very Right.Very, very good point. So in their particular case, right there, they're combining the imagery of their product, you know, that you're gonna see these on, you know, a lot of, you know, slick men and slick women that are out there, you know, in the in the south of France, or on some very expensive looking golf course, or sitting around some gorgeous swimming pool. But right, there's also technology involved in what they do in terms of the way the glasses are built and, and how they filter out particular levels of sunray that are harmful to your eyes. All right, they've got the imagery, but they, they're using, are employing something called brand storytelling. And in this particular case, this, the brand storytelling method they're using is baked out based on technological achievement in the category that they're in. So they will talk about how this filters out X percentage of whatever. So there's a brand story there based on technology. And because they've been doing this consistently over time, their fan base believes and appreciates the factual stuff that they put out there in their marketing, they already believe in it, and they continue to hammer that home. And then on top of the technology, they make it look great on really good looking people. So the rest of us aspire to not only want to take advantage of the technology that's there. But they also want us all to believe that when we wear these things, we're going to look cool also.

Dave Erickson 39:27
We get a lot of proposals, people come to us saying Hey, I would like to build a website, this is my product, or I want to do a mobile app, this is my, you know, SaaS product or whatever. I've developed or designed those kinds of websites or the projects that they're asking us to do. They've developed them from a very technical background and when I asked them, well what is it that you're really trying to say? Right? They usually end up talking about their technology and their focus is really on the mechanics of what they built, because they're engineers, right? They love their, they built it because they love this product. They love the concept. They're trying to solve the problem. When I ask them, what problem are you solving, they may say a sentence about it, and then go on with all their technology of how their technology is wonderful for this problem. I think, though, that in not just pitching, you know, an investor, but pitching anyone or talking to anyone about your business proposal, or when you come to a development company and say, hey, I want you to build this, I think they get lost in the technology and aren't focused on why they're doing it, and who they're trying to help, or who their customer is. And speaking to that, I know that part of the branding, marketing and sales process is understanding your customer or your audience. And that's probably a critical feature in any kind of presentation or pitch. Maybe you can talk a little bit about how people can kind of go about engineering or writing or putting their messaging together in relationship to their audience, and how do they figure out what their audience responds to best.

Glenn Rudin 41:24
Well, you know, identifying the right audience is crucial for, for any messaging, right? Because, you know, for argument's sake, if, if we're selling real estate for the 55+ retirement community, but the messaging that we're putting out there is really meant to appeal to, you know, to the Tik Tok universe that's out there in terms of, you know, the videos and the way we're speaking and the quick, quick cuts and things like that, that somebody who's, you know, 55+, might not respond to. So it's really important to determine who is that person that is hearing what you are saying. And if you're, let's say, let's say you are a millennial, you're in your 30’s, and you're not sure, exactly, but you know, but you're, you know, you've got a real estate investment here that you're selling and you know, that you need to be selling that to people who are 55+, that it's really very important that, you know, that you find some people who are in the demographic, who you can actually run some of the copy by, some of the messaging by so that you understand exactly how they are going to react to what you're doing, because there's a really good chance that if you take the time to meet with some, again, we'll use this real estate example. So people who are 60 years old, and you run some messaging by them, and it doesn't resonate with them, then you know, you've got to go back to the drawing board, because you're speaking to somebody from the standpoint of a Millennials mentality, which is going to be completely different than that of somebody who is a baby boomer. And so it's not to say that if you're in your 30s, you can't do this, but it's really important that before you actually finalize something, and put it up on a website, or put it into writing or into a brochure that you've test marketed with people who are in that demographic, and it doesn't mean you've got to spend hundreds of 1000’s of dollars doing research. For sure you've got parents, or if you don't want to get your parents involved, then you've got friends who have parents who could potentially be interested in making this kind of investment in real estate, and finding out whether or not the message is resonating, whether it's understandable, whether it generates more follow up questions. That's exactly the kind of thing that you're looking for. So you know, again, as you put any of these kinds of campaigns together, doing it with your end target market in mind, is crucial, because if the end target market, the people that you really trying to sell this concept to are not hearing it, because you're speaking in a different language to them and yes, millennials speak in a different language than baby boomers do; at a different pace at a different clip, in different amounts of information going out there, then there's a really good chance that the messaging you're putting out there is not going to appeal to the target audience. And by the same token, if you're somebody who's my age in your 60s, and you're writing copy that it needs to appeal to millennials or Generation Z, it's probably really important to make sure that the way you're speaking is a way that that audience wants to take that message and so it works both ways in that spectrum. But it's crucial to make sure that that messaging is written in a way that the target audience is really taken into mind when you're putting it up there.

Dave Erickson 45:01
In pitching or in sales, and I don't say pitching and sales are the same thing. But you know, in sales, you're you're, you're in a sense presenting what you offer, and trying to get the other person to say, yes, I would like that, right? In pitching, you're kind of doing something similar, you're presenting an idea and hoping to get someone to say, I liked that enough, or I'm going to talk to you some more about it. In, in the past, a lot of that activity happened personally, you are meeting people personally, you're in conventions, you're in audiences, you're, you're doing it live and a lot of our sales and marketing strategies and techniques were developed from that. But in our current, post pandemic world, a lot of stuff happens just like this podcast, virtually, or by web, or now by Tik Tok or YouTube or other ways of communicating, presenting to people that people didn't necessarily have before. How has that changed? The basic kind of strategies of pitching and selling? Are there things you need to kind of take into consideration, doing it virtually versus live?

Glenn Rudin 46:26
Well, you know, one of the big mistakes, It's a great question, and it's well taken. Look, it's opened up international opportunities that never existed before, right? I can be on a call with you, or Botond where you know, before this technology existed, what you know, where in the world would we even run into one another? Anywhere in the world would be virtually impossible. And so what you have to start thinking about is what does the selling environment that you're in look like? Now look, not that I'm caught off guard, but right, I'm doing my particular presentation right now in front of a green screen. So that's really what you see behind me. So you don't see a mess. You don't see, you know, a lot of disorganization and chaos behind me, which is very, very important. Because whatever you're selling from now, you're bringing this environment with you. And one of the things that people don't understand is they start looking at the person that they're speaking to on the screen, because it's much more comfortable to do that. But what you need to start doing is training yourself to actually look at your camera, make eye contact there so that somebody can see you see you and honestly look into your eyes and understand the sincerity that you have, you need to make sure that your audio whether you're using you know, I'm using a Yeti microphone, but whatever you're using, is very, very audible and understandable. And then again, you know, here in terms of your pitch, you may even want to slow it down just a little bit in terms of the pace that you're putting it out there, so that depending on how somebody is receiving it on their end, they've got a chance to take it in, consider it, and then respond back to you. So the pacing is very important and also giving your audience a chance to consider it, being comfortable with some of that silence, letting it sink in, and then waiting for someone to say, Okay, I've got a question for you. So it's really getting practice, that the idea of looking at the camera, again, presenting your thoughts in a very succinct manner, so that you're crystal clear. And you're creating engagement, and people listening in, and then giving them a chance to absorb what you have, and then ask you some questions, but the lighting is critical. So many times people will appear where their, their window with the sun beaming through, is behind them, and then they're completely in shadow, we can't see them, or the lighting that they have is not bright enough. So we can't really see their face, we really can't see their eyes, the audio is somewhat garbled so it's not really coming through clearly. Every single one of these things has the ability to diminish the message that you're delivering when you're not doing it in person. And so it's really critical that you get well practiced, that how you appear on screen, how you come across on screen, and is your technology favoring everything that you're doing and allowing you to be your absolute best from that perspective?

Dave Erickson 49:39
Well, I'd like to jump to another topic. One of the things that people have a hard time with and or forget to do or don't do well, and maybe you can offer some tips on this. When you finish a pitch, you're usually asking for something you're usually having some kind of call to action. Even when you're doing sales, you're trying to, you know, you're not saying this to somebody for it to just end and then they walk away, right? You're trying to get some kind of action. But it's one of the harder things that people have, you know, do. it's hard to ask somebody, well, now that you've listened to me, please do this, right. But maybe you can give some pointers or some tips on, on how to kind of close a pitch and how to do a call to action or ask somebody for something at the end of your pitch. I think that would be, you know, important for people to know.

Glenn Rudin 50:37
Okay. And that's a great question also. And again, taking the easy way out. Most people end a presentation by saying, Do you have any questions, which is probably the worst thing that you should say, because it immediately says to somebody, if you don't have questions, there's a problem. And if you've done a good enough job presenting what you're doing, there really shouldn't be any questions. And so to me, the best way to get to the answers that you're looking for, would be to end your presentation with, based on what I've told you, and what I know your goals are. How can we quickly or how can we get to a place where you feel comfortable making this investment? How can we get to a place where because we were, we firmly established that this is a need that you see, like I see it, I can see the way you were nodding your head, that you understand the problem that this addresses? How can we take this to a next level for you, so that you feel comfortable with everything that I've just explained? Rather than asking questions, or we can anticipate, if we know what some of the questions somebody might ask would be, how long does this take? Or how much money is this going to be? Or when is this actually going to get into the market, you can take the time, because very often people will be uncomfortable, especially in a group setting. You know, it's one of the more unnerving things when, when someone like me is doing a public presentation or a speech, and you stop somewhere along the way, any questions, and it's just complete silence. And because you're in this virtual world, you can't even really tell who's paying attention who's not because you're really focused on yourself. And there's 30, or 50, or 100 people that are on this call. And so a better way to go about it, is to have some canned questions in your mind, that you already know the answers to, which will make somebody feel that much more comfortable in terms of the way you're buttoning it up. So you know, again, if you know if we talk about this fragrance idea that that Botond was talking about earlier, I know you saw these great images of the fragrance, and I'm sure you're wondering, how can I get my hands on that actual fragrance, so I can smell it, I can wear it on my skin, you know, see what it smells like to me. And the answer to that is we're going to be sending out samples on such and such a day or we have samples here. If you're in person, you know in the briefcase that we can bring out. And you can actually get, you know, the smell of this right now. Or, you know, I'm sure based on what you saw, if we talk about this life saving device that you saw on the Dragon's Den, right, a bet you're wondering how in the world, you could possibly see this or get this into your life? Well, we've done this, this and this to make sure that a sample will be available for you to try. Because we know how important this will be to you and to the world and we don't want to let any roadblocks get in the way of stopping that. So it's really taking the time to think about if you were the investor, what questions might you have at the end of this? How soon are you looking for the investment? How much of an investment is a minimum that you could make in this? How can I follow up with you? Think about what some of these questions are, and fill in the blanks for them. So that when you're done, right, you're actually done with the presentation. Say I listen, I know, based on the questions that you asked that you are really interested in this investment. What can we now do to take this to the next level with you and your investors, rather than just a general, do you have any questions for me?

Botond Seres 54:40
What advice would you give to people who are just starting out to build their brand identity, their pitch deck and elevator pitches? So of course you could go with a classic. Just do it. But,I mean if you have something very specific that people don't even think about in general?

Glenn Rudin 55:05
Well, you know, the thing that I see, it's a great question, because the thing that I see more often than not is somebody who has a great idea here, but they haven't put it down on paper. They haven't shared it with anybody. And what you have to realize is, the longer you sit on something that you think is a great idea, right, there's 3 billion people on the planet and I'm not saying they're all thinking about whatever you're thinking about, but there's a really good chance if there's some new mousetrap that you have in your mind that you think is going to be a better way of catching mice, the longer it sits here, than gets on a piece of paper, and you start speaking about it and or start doing something about it, it will never happen. And so people are frozen by the fear of not knowing what to do. So for me, the first thing to do is put it on paper. The second thing to do is find somebody, whether it's somebody like me that's worked in product development, that's worked in marketing, and sales and messaging and branding, find somebody that you can take, and people like me do free consultation calls all the time where people will get in touch, and they'll start speaking about something. I had somebody just about a month ago who came to me. And her idea, not that it was a bad one, was a new character, that she wanted the Disney company to create a movie property around and market. And I said, Listen, you know, this is a really noble idea and I have no idea who the character is, I did not look at it, but I said, you know, you can go right to the Disney website and the first thing that they'll tell you is we don't take submissions from people that we don't know, because we don't want to get into legal hassles somewhere down the road, if we happen to come up with something that looks similar to what you think your particular new character was. And so I will say I'll land the plane on this Botond, if you've got a good idea, take action, do something with it. If it's not something you're comfortable creating or doing, find somebody who can help you bring this thing to life on paper, talk about it in ways that either it's a good idea, or it's not a good idea, or you haven't done enough research. And there's something just like that that's already out there in the marketplace. But don't keep it locked up here, because nobody can do anything with it if you're the only one who knows something about it.

Botond Seres 57:54
That honestly goes about so many things that people recommend. One of the first things people recommend is, keep it locked up, don't share, somebody will steal your idea immediately. But, Glenn, you said something that I truly do believe in. If you have a great idea. Just, Just share, because someone might help you make it a reality.

Glenn Rudin 58:18
I mean, it's important to know who you're sharing it with, right? There are people out there who will be only too happy to steal your idea. I've certainly seen my share of that in my career. But there's a lot of really good people out there too, who are only too willing to help to lend a hand to some extent and at least give you the confidence of knowing this is something really worth pursuing. Keep going after it or this one might not be your best one, but I'm impressed by the fact that you're thinking that way. Keep thinking about what might else be you know what else might be out there in terms of opportunities, but certainly you can't do anything with it if it's just locked up inside your head Botond for sure.

Dave Erickson 58:58
You know, getting to meet people, getting a feel for who good people are, and then trusting them with your concepts and ideas so that you get feedback, that's just always a positive thing. It helps make business go through. And that kind of leads me to the next, next point. So Glenn, what are kind of, the things you help people with in your consulting business? And if there are listeners to this show? How can they get a hold of you and work with you on the things that you can offer?

Glenn Rudin 59:31
Okay, so I'm, I'm a coach and a business strategist. So I help people create these pitch decks, elevator pitches, develop their branding and their corporate message to the world. And so if you're struggling like so many people do, you've got a good concept, but you could use help with that, these are the kinds of things that I specialize in and helping people understand the story. Energy of what it's going to take to get this idea, developed, understood and marketed. These are all things that I've worked on throughout my career, both in startups and then working inside large companies like Revlon and Shiseido, that we mentioned earlier. I’m super easy to get a hold of, my company's website is, alwaysbeencreative.com. Right on my homepage, there's a spot there where you can book a free 30 minute call with me. There's no cost, no obligation, we'll just get to know one another and create a deeper connection as human beings, which I love. You can find me on the LinkedIn platform, to the best of my knowledge on the only Glenn with two Ns, R-U-D-I-N on LinkedIn.You can find me on Instagram, that's Glenn_Rudan_message_master. And you can just write to me directly, Glenn with two Ns at alwaysbeencreative.com. I answer every email and letter that I get and anybody who books time with me knows that half hour usually turns into a lot more quality time than that, which really gives somebody a good idea about whether or not they're on the right track, or they really might need to change course. And so I welcome any of your listeners, anybody who's hearing this to get in touch with me. I'd love to get to know what your idea is and if there are ways to, to work with me. I'm going to be actually launching my first group training sometime probably in the middle of May. So if individual one-on-one coaching isn't right for you, there might be an opportunity there for you to be, you know, inexpensively in a weekly class with me where we actually get to interact with one another as well. So all those ways and I appreciate your asking. And listen, I appreciate so much meeting the two of you and getting to know the two of you a bit more here and look forward to connecting to the two of you down the road. And I thank you so much for the opportunity to provide this interview space for me.

Dave Erickson 1:02:11
That was wonderful for us. We learned a lot and got a better understanding as well. And we'll obviously put all of your contact information in our descriptions on either our YouTube channel or podcasting outlets, so people can get a hold of you quickly. All right. Well, Glen, thank you so much, and to our listeners. In a month we'll have another ScreamingBox technology and business rundown podcast, and until then happy trails and stay healthy.

Dave Erickson Outro
Thank you very much for taking this journey with us. Join us for our next exciting exploration of technology and business in the first week of every month. Please help us by subscribing, liking and following us on whichever platform you're listening to or watching us on. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and please let us know any subjects or topics you'd like us to discuss in our next podcast by leaving a message for us in the comment sections or sending us a Twitter DM till next month. Please stay happy and healthy.